• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

National Express Coaches Discussion

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
Normally, all scheduled stops on all NX journeys should still be served. Even if not pre-booked, people can take a chance and pay the driver if seats are available.
However (buried in Conditions of Carriage) this is not guaranteed and so, if a service is running late, network control can authorise stops without bookings to be missed to help make up time. Drivers are never supposed to do so without specific authorisation and an 'incident number' given.
The exception to that is if a service is drop off only. W have a service that gets into York at about midnight, however as it is drop off only we were told by NX if there was nobody on for York we don't have to go and don't need to ring for authorisation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
2,976
Location
London
Isn't it time they had some sort of refreshment provision onboard - particularly on "long haul" journeys ?

Flixbus do it so not unreasonable. But the driver would have to be responsible. The days of hostesses (was there ever a male host selling refreshements on Rapide coaches?) selling refreshments are long gone.
 

Butts

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Jan 2011
Messages
11,323
Location
Stirlingshire
Flixbus do it so not unreasonable. But the driver would have to be responsible. The days of hostesses (was there ever a male host selling refreshements on Rapide coaches?) selling refreshments are long gone.

One would have hoped not, sales would have plummeted ;)
 

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,749
The days of hostesses (was there ever a male host selling refreshements on Rapide coaches?) selling refreshments are long gone.
The reason why they finished, according to a couple of staff I spoke to, was minimum wage. National Express had to pay minimum wage on top of commission and it ceased to be viable. Transferring commission to wages disincentivised staff, reduced the efforts put into sales and the rest is history.
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,546
Location
Elginshire
I think, before there are any further comments about stewards on coach services, we all need to remember that we are now in the 21st century and should avoid using any discriminatory language. :)
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,571
Location
Yorkshire
Normally, all scheduled stops on all NX journeys should still be served. Even if not pre-booked, people can take a chance and pay the driver if seats are available.
However (buried in Conditions of Carriage) this is not guaranteed and so, if a service is running late, network control can authorise stops without bookings to be missed to help make up time. Drivers are never supposed to do so without specific authorisation and an 'incident number' given.
Do you know how long that's been the case?

I used to catch the 350 between Nottingham and Cambridge a couple of times a year in the nineties and never once did we actually call at Grantham, despite it being a timetabled stop.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,532
It doesn't strike me that there is a huge market for onboard refreshments on coaches, at least not to the extent that would make it viable or encourage substantial extra business.

I recall that the Megabus Gold services offered some refreshments on board and likewise Citylink Gold in Scotland but with only fifty or sixty potential customers and not huge uptake from them it is difficult to see how anything expansive would make sense.
 

Ridercross

Member
Joined
23 Aug 2020
Messages
97
Location
Midlands
Isn't it time they had some sort of refreshment provision onboard - particularly on "long haul" journeys ?
There are still scheduled stops on many services to remove the need for this. I recently travelled on the 104 Birmingham to Penzance and passengers could get off at Bristol for anything that passengers may have needed and there was a compulsory break at Plymouth where refreshments are available.

Also I have been on Haverfordwest to Birmingham where the Swansea stop provided any needs, and the Haverfordwest to London which had a break at Cardiff West Services.
 

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
2,976
Location
London
There are still scheduled stops on many services to remove the need for this.

One of the main reasons why refreshments were introduced on coaches was to speed up journeys, meaning you could go from London to Manchester, for example, without stopping other than to change drivers.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Isn't it time they had some sort of refreshment provision onboard - particularly on "long haul" journeys ?
Most of the long services have rest stops at service areas.

Do you know how long that's been the case?

I used to catch the 350 between Nottingham and Cambridge a couple of times a year in the nineties and never once did we actually call at Grantham, despite it being a timetabled stop.
I remember Lockerbie being on the timetable for the 588 but we never stopped there.

With regards to rest stops, what is the shortest service to see a stop at a service station?
 

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,208
Location
At home or at the pub
A few times i've been on the old overnight 421 Blackpool to London, & gone straight down the M40, & not served Oxford, this was Southbound service though, the Northbound service always had a couple of passengers boarding at Oxford, handy Oxford has it's own dedicated Heathrow & London services.
 

Metal_gee_man

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
669
Does anyone have any insight why so many non-NX branded coaches are running services in Kent (I only ask because it seems recent more than a 50/50 split have been branded NX and others Kings Ferry Coaches / Clarkes of London), I fully understand the KFC/Clarkes/Lucketts ownership part of this conversion and I know it wasn't unusual to see an unbranded one here and there on say early morning runs or late night runs where running back to the local depot etc could be easier or other work may have been planned for the vehicle that day that wasn't NX.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,135
Does anyone have any insight why so many non-NX branded coaches are running services in Kent (I only ask because it seems recent more than a 50/50 split have been branded NX and others Kings Ferry Coaches / Clarkes of London), I fully understand the KFC/Clarkes/Lucketts ownership part of this conversion and I know it wasn't unusual to see an unbranded one here and there on say early morning runs or late night runs where running back to the local depot etc could be easier or other work may have been planned for the vehicle that day that wasn't NX.
Some of it may have been duplicates as well.
 

Titfield

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
1,666
One of the main reasons why refreshments were introduced on coaches was to speed up journeys, meaning you could go from London to Manchester, for example, without stopping other than to change drivers.

When comparing coach vs rail(which is what many prospective passengers do) there is usually a straight trade off between fare (cost) and duration of journey. As time appears to have becoming more valuable (in perception) so the longer journeys by coach increasingly tips the balance in favour of rail. Hence anything that reduces journey times becomes worthy of consideration.

Back in the 1980s (early) not only did NExp operate Rapide services (with on board refreshments and originally videos) there was also a number of non stop journeys on standard coaches called Timesaver. For example Timesaver 719 which operated Bournemouth <> London Victoria non stop (ie no stops at Ringwood or Heathrow Airport). I caught it a few times myself and greatly appreciated the journey time at a fraction of the cost of rail,
 

Butts

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Jan 2011
Messages
11,323
Location
Stirlingshire
When comparing coach vs rail(which is what many prospective passengers do) there is usually a straight trade off between fare (cost) and duration of journey. As time appears to have becoming more valuable (in perception) so the longer journeys by coach increasingly tips the balance in favour of rail. Hence anything that reduces journey times becomes worthy of consideration.

Back in the 1980s (early) not only did NExp operate Rapide services (with on board refreshments and originally videos) there was also a number of non stop journeys on standard coaches called Timesaver. For example Timesaver 719 which operated Bournemouth <> London Victoria non stop (ie no stops at Ringwood or Heathrow Airport). I caught it a few times myself and greatly appreciated the journey time at a fraction of the cost of rail,

I think you also have to factor Air in alongside Rail as a prospective rival particularly on Anglo Scottish Routes from London to principal Cities like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness. In the days of Rapide all you had was BA Super Shuttle and a few others that were prohibitively expensive.

Timewise Air obviously annihilates Coach Times.
 

duncombec

Member
Joined
3 Sep 2014
Messages
776
Does anyone have any insight why so many non-NX branded coaches are running services in Kent (I only ask because it seems recent more than a 50/50 split have been branded NX and others Kings Ferry Coaches / Clarkes of London), I fully understand the KFC/Clarkes/Lucketts ownership part of this conversion and I know it wasn't unusual to see an unbranded one here and there on say early morning runs or late night runs where running back to the local depot etc could be easier or other work may have been planned for the vehicle that day that wasn't NX.
No duplicates in Kent - the service on the 007/022 has just been decreased as passenger numbers have (allegedly) not warranted the April uptick, and also to free up vehicles for the new 260.

Various suggestions have been made for the absence of NatEx branded vehicles (it has been suggested the Levantes were some of the oldest vehicles still used on front-line service, temporary moves for the Commonwealth Games, etc etc.) but none have yet been confirmed with certainty.
 

Cesarcollie

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2016
Messages
524
No duplicates in Kent - the service on the 007/022 has just been decreased as passenger numbers have (allegedly) not warranted the April uptick, and also to free up vehicles for the new 260.

Various suggestions have been made for the absence of NatEx branded vehicles (it has been suggested the Levantes were some of the oldest vehicles still used on front-line service, temporary moves for the Commonwealth Games, etc etc.) but none have yet been confirmed with certainty.

I believe the answer is that the network is expanding back towards pre-covid levels but with the withdrawal of older vehicles and sale/transfer to other uses by contractors during the pandemic, there aren’t enough coaches available. So newish PSVAR (but non liveried) vehicles are being allowed by agreement for the expansion until new Levante deliveries can take up the slack.
 

Titfield

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
1,666
I think you also have to factor Air in alongside Rail as a prospective rival particularly on Anglo Scottish Routes from London to principal Cities like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness. In the days of Rapide all you had was BA Super Shuttle and a few others that were prohibitively expensive.

Timewise Air obviously annihilates Coach Times.

The attractiveness of air (against rail) waxes and wains. It is a much more individual comparison as one has to factor in getting to / from the airport at each end vs getting to / from the rail stations (of the anglo -scottish services) and the time you have to allow at the airport for security / check in etc etc.

In the early 90s I could fly from Southampton to Manchester (on loganair) and the fight time was just 55 minutes. Southampton was a relatively quiet airport so you could park alongside the airport terminal (at reasonable cost) and be quite comfortable getting to southampton only an hour before flight departure time. A colleague used to pick me up from Manchester Airport to go to the meeting venue. Before 911 flying domestic was a breeze.
 

Man of Kent

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
590
I believe the answer is that the network is expanding back towards pre-covid levels but with the withdrawal of older vehicles and sale/transfer to other uses by contractors during the pandemic, there aren’t enough coaches available. So newish PSVAR (but non liveried) vehicles are being allowed by agreement for the expansion until new Levante deliveries can take up the slack.
Official line from NX is "Most vehicles provided in Kent are in The Kings Ferry or Clarkes of London liveries owing to a shortage of NX liveried vehicles."
 

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
3,538
Location
Western Part of the UK
Official line from NX is "Most vehicles provided in Kent are in The Kings Ferry or Clarkes of London liveries owing to a shortage of NX liveried vehicles."
To be fair, given NatEx already uses 3rd party operators to expand the network, why don't they kind of run the Kent stuff as 'Kings Ferry'? Fares all taken still by NatEx and everything behind the scenes runs as per current but operationally, it saves Kings Ferry hassle sorting Levantes and they can use their existing PSVAR vehicles for the work. Additionally, The Kings Ferry is very well respected in the area already which could maybe help get more people onto services.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
No duplicates in Kent - the service on the 007/022 has just been decreased as passenger numbers have (allegedly) not warranted the April uptick, and also to free up vehicles for the new 260.

Various suggestions have been made for the absence of NatEx branded vehicles (it has been suggested the Levantes were some of the oldest vehicles still used on front-line service, temporary moves for the Commonwealth Games, etc etc.) but none have yet been confirmed with certainty.
The Kent services are up against a much more frequent and faster rail service and the services take a long time to get out of London. I took the 007 earlier this year and most people got off at Canterbury and I was pretty much the last person on board at Dover.
 

Blindtraveler

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
9,600
Location
Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I think there might be something in the vehicle age factor; a relative uses the Kent services quite regularly and and reports that some fairly ancient, by NX standard, vehicles frequently tipped up. Obviously having, been worked hard all their life, they presented their fair share of trouble.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
I think there might be something in the vehicle age factor; a relative uses the Kent services quite regularly and and reports that some fairly ancient, by NX standard, vehicles frequently tipped up. Obviously having, been worked hard all their life, they presented their fair share of trouble.
When I used the 007, it was a 65 plate, I didn't notice it being in a bad shape. It was a single axle levante which are not as common. I cant remember the last time I seen an older NX coach than a 65 plate.
 

Bristol LH

Member
Joined
6 Aug 2017
Messages
73
When I used the 007, it was a 65 plate, I didn't notice it being in a bad shape. It was a single axle levante which are not as common. I cant remember the last time I seen an older NX coach than a 65 plate.
A number of the Kings Ferry 65-plate Levante-bodied Scanias are on long term hire to Edwards' Avonmouth, Bristol depot.
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,546
Location
Elginshire
When I used the 007, it was a 65 plate, I didn't notice it being in a bad shape. It was a single axle levante which are not as common. I cant remember the last time I seen an older NX coach than a 65 plate.

I'd like to see a coach get anywhere with a single axle :)
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
After I booked a cheaper than normal ticket through Wizz Air on the Green line 757 for my flight, I'm now looking if there is a deal booking National Express from Ryanair.

However, in the flight booking process, it didn't let me choose Golders Green as my transfer destination. After the flight booking Ryanair sent me an email to add airport transfer which I could select Golders Green on the A6 route, however it was more expensive than booking direct from National Express.
 

Top