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Ember: Electric coach service

MotCO

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It would appear so. The whole article is an interesting read but the quote below shows that numbers seem to be doing well.

What is the reason for this increased patronage? Are these new routes or are they competing with established operators?

Are passengers attracted by the green credentials of the coaches?
 
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overthewater

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The service has increased, the service also provides links to other parts of Edinburgh which don't already have existing links, plus Stagecoach reduced it's X56 to Edinburgh from Kinross due to a driver shortage so wouldn't surprise me if Kinross passengers have jumped.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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The service has increased, the service also provides links to other parts of Edinburgh which don't already have existing links, plus Stagecoach reduced it's X56 to Edinburgh from Kinross due to a driver shortage so wouldn't surprise me if Kinross passengers have jumped.
This is certainly what I've noticed anytime I've used the E1/E2; there's usually quite a number of folk getting on at Kinross and a mass exodus there on the way back. Bridge of Earn and St Madoes are usually quite popular too
 

overthewater

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The 3 morning peak journeys leaving Dundee at 07.00, 08.15, 09.30 are all full for the next 3 days, I dare say that's because of the Highland show. On Saturday the 12.30 only has 3 seats left, That good going.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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The 3 morning peak journeys leaving Dundee at 07.00, 08.15, 09.30 are all full for the next 3 days, I dare say that's because of the Highland show. On Saturday the 12.30 only has 3 seats left, That good going.
Or, more likely, the rail strikes?

One very big flaw with Ember is the lack of recovery time in Edinburgh. And, even with extensive layover in Dundee, buses will still depart late if they arrive in late and haven't had enough time to recharge to 100%. There's also not enough running time if the service has to call in at most of the request stops, but I suspect if they increased running times the services would be less appealing to end-to-end customers, and would result in a lot of hanging around if there's no one to pick up at the request stops.

The new 22 plate Yutongs have been retrofitted with a toilet in the rear nearside corner to the expense of four rows of seats. They now only seat 35 compared to the 43 which the 70 and 21 plates do.
 

Blindtraveler

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Yes the rail strikes will definitely be having an impact. I agree completely about the recovery time, I can't help wondering if they should maybe form a contingency to spin services round at ingliston park and ride if if they are running seriously late and advise passengers via messages, emails and social media to zip out there on the tram if they were booked to join a Dundee bound service from st Andrews Square




Another reason I should think for the popularity of the service is that assuming or runs the schedule the journey time to Dundee is competitive and and you get a level of consistent quality in terms of vehicle compared to to stagecoach, CityLink or Megabus who whilst offering a minimum standard do tend to employee the random vehicle generator on all of their services going up that way and you can never guarantee a specific booked vehicle type
 

overthewater

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Or, more likely, the rail strikes?
If you check the ticker finder from Ingliston Park N Ride there is good amount of free seats, It looks like it's a combination of both. Which does make it better as Ember is getting mix of passengers.
 

markymark2000

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Or, more likely, the rail strikes?

One very big flaw with Ember is the lack of recovery time in Edinburgh. And, even with extensive layover in Dundee, buses will still depart late if they arrive in late and haven't had enough time to recharge to 100%. There's also not enough running time if the service has to call in at most of the request stops, but I suspect if they increased running times the services would be less appealing to end-to-end customers, and would result in a lot of hanging around if there's no one to pick up at the request stops.

The new 22 plate Yutongs have been retrofitted with a toilet in the rear nearside corner to the expense of four rows of seats. They now only seat 35 compared to the 43 which the 70 and 21 plates do.
35 seats. wow. So low. That can't be good to maximise revenue potential. Normal coaches can take 47/8/9 (depending on wheelchair seats in, out, single etc). To lose 10 passengers due to a toilet (which normally only takes up 4 seats, not 4 rows) and the useless centre doors. That's something that I think should be looked at.
 

Glasgowbusguy

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Here are some pics of the Ember bus today at Glasgow Buchanan bus station at 15:45. It was on stance stance 18 which has no currently scheduled departures.
 

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scotrail158713

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Confirmation of a “soft-launch” from tomorrow (14 July) of the E3 Glasgow service, followed by a full launch on August 1st. £8.50 for a single between Dundee and Glasgow.
New Dundee to Glasgow Service
We're launching a new route from Dundee to Glasgow. We'll be soft-launching with four services per day in each direction from 14 July. This will be followed by a full-service launch on 1 August with ten services per day in each direction, running 24/7.
It's just £8.50 for an adult single from Dundee to Glasgow if you book online (whether you book weeks before or a minute ahead).
In Dundee, we'll be picking up outside Malmaison in the city centre and dropping off at the train station (about 100m away from the pick up point). In Glasgow, we'll be calling at Buchanan Bus Station. We also have a range of intermediate stops including Stirling (Castleview Park & Ride), Dunblane, Cumbernauld and Perth (Broxden Park & Ride).
During the soft-launch period, it'll only be possible to book a journey to and from Glasgow but we'll be opening up the full range of journeys from 1 August.
You can see the full route and all the stops on our live map.
 

Tayway

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Not entirely sure why the Edinburgh service has two route numbers (one for each direction), while the new Glasgow service makes do with one. Nevertheless it's good to see them branch out, and I expect they will be taking a fair few passengers from both Citylink and the currently dire ScotRail.
 

markymark2000

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Not entirely sure why the Edinburgh service has two route numbers (one for each direction), while the new Glasgow service makes do with one. Nevertheless it's good to see them branch out, and I expect they will be taking a fair few passengers from both Citylink and the currently dire ScotRail.
I emailed them about this just the other day and apparently the E2 is being dropped in September with Edinburgh-Dundee being numbered E1 both directions.
 

GaryMcEwan

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I’m currently on the 16:50 E3 from Perth to Glasgow and I must say I’m very impressed.

With it being all electric I was fully expecting to hear nothing but whining from the electric motors but it’s very quiet. It’s actually very smooth as well. No overly loud rattles.

I’m the only passenger on board but so far I would definitely use going forward over Citylink /Megabus.

Plus, in weather like this it’s nice to have functioning air conditioning that blows an arctic gale.
 
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I’m currently on the 16:50 E3 from Perth to Glasgow and I must say I’m very impressed.

With it being all electric I was fully expecting to hear nothing but whining from the electric motors but it’s very quiet. It’s actually very smooth as well. No overly loud rattles.

I’m the only passenger on board but so far I would definitely use going forward over Citylink /Megabus.

Plus, in weather like this it’s nice to have functioning air conditioning that blows an arctic gale.
Sounds nice.

Yes functioning air con is nice. I was on one of those Citylink services that goes fast Glasgow to Aberdeen a while back during the rail strikes which was operated by a Panorama. The downstairs was nice and cold but the upstairs was extremely hot and stuffy, not sure what was going on there.
 

route101

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I’m currently on the 16:50 E3 from Perth to Glasgow and I must say I’m very impressed.

With it being all electric I was fully expecting to hear nothing but whining from the electric motors but it’s very quiet. It’s actually very smooth as well. No overly loud rattles.

I’m the only passenger on board but so far I would definitely use going forward over Citylink /Megabus.

Plus, in weather like this it’s nice to have functioning air conditioning that blows an arctic gale.
Might try out this route, I have done the Edinburgh to Dundee route. In some ways I like a little bit of engine noise! I think Ember have a better walk up fare than Citylink? I was on a National Express and had to put on my jumper as it was so cold.
 

GusB

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Inverness is next on the list:

Electric coach express specialist Ember has applied for planning permission to build a charging depot in Inverness.

The Scottish coach operator, which runs a growing fleet of Yutong Tce-12 battery coaches, has been expnading its services since the initial four-coach operation, with Scottish funding which will ad a further 20-plus coaches to its fleet. The plan, says Ember, is to establish long-distance electric coach services into Edinburgh, Glasgow, Fort William and Aberdeen.
 

Blindtraveler

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The coach already wins in so many ways over the train for Inverness journeys and and I would imagine an all-electric journey time I'm with these guys would be extremely competitive indeed as well as the price and comfort levels. Without wanting to take things off topic, I think ScotRail need to seriously watch what they doing all they are simply going to find the bus companies are doing it better
 

Glasgowbusguy

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The coach already wins in so many ways over the train for Inverness journeys and and I would imagine an all-electric journey time I'm with these guys would be extremely competitive indeed as well as the price and comfort levels. Without wanting to take things off topic, I think ScotRail need to seriously watch what they doing all they are simply going to find the bus companies are doing it better
If it's a direct Dundee to Inverness journey then the railway doesn't have a direct comparison as the railway needs a change at Perth
 

johncrossley

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Does this service actually improve the environment? Seems odd to subsidise (for want of a better word) a competing service against diesel coaches and trains. A greener idea would be to replace some existing coaches with electric ones.

Regardless of the ethics, I used the Dundee to Edinburgh service last year and was impressed, but I did think it was quite noisy at full speed. Are the newer coaches any different?
 

route101

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Nice to see Ember expanding. My only worry is the coaches seem small and can sell out. That happens to Citylink too.
 

Glasgowbusguy

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Nice to see Ember expanding. My only worry is the coaches seem small and can sell out. That happens to Citylink too.
Selling out is a good thing and with them being electric, adding extra buses is a fairly netural environmental impact.
 

Stan Drews

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Does this service actually improve the environment? Seems odd to subsidise (for want of a better word) a competing service against diesel coaches and trains. A greener idea would be to replace some existing coaches with electric ones.

Regardless of the ethics, I used the Dundee to Edinburgh service last year and was impressed, but I did think it was quite noisy at full speed. Are the newer coaches any different?
Ember aren’t subsidised. There services are all fully commercial operations.
 

markymark2000

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Ember must be selling a lot of tickets at the bus or people booking very late as the majority of services show up as 30+ seats available. That's on both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Though I of course know Glasgow is still not fully launched.
 

Man of Kent

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They got funding to buy the coaches (which is why I said 'for want of a better word').
ScotZEB, likes its English equivalent, offers partial funding towards costs. It is roughly 50% of the cost of an electric bus (more for infrastructure), or to put it another way, broadly the difference in price between diesel and electric. So for the 26 vehicles it is buying, Ember would have had to have found something in the order of £7.8m before being eligible for any grant aid.

This website https://www.grantfinder.co.uk/launch-of-the-scottish-zero-emission-bus-challenge-fund-scotzeb/ details maximum grants as:
  • £80,000 for a ZEB with at least 9 passenger seats and at least one wheelchair accessible space.
  • £140,000 for a ZEB with a total capacity for 32 or more passengers.
  • £180,000 for a battery-electric ZEB with at least 45 seats and a maximum theoretical range of at least 310 km.
  • £180,000 for battery-electric ZEB with a total capacity for 60 or more passengers.
  • £230,000 for a hydrogen fuel-cell ZEB with at least 45 seats and a maximum theoretical range of at least 310 km.
  • £230,000 for a hydrogen fuel-cell ZEB with a total capacity for 60 or more passengers.
  • 75% of the capital costs for electric charging infrastructure.
  • 85% of the capital costs for hydrogen refuelling infrastructure.
 

Stan Drews

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ScotZEB, likes its English equivalent, offers partial funding towards costs. It is roughly 50% of the cost of an electric bus (more for infrastructure), or to put it another way, broadly the difference in price between diesel and electric. So for the 26 vehicles it is buying, Ember would have had to have found something in the order of £7.8m before being eligible for any grant aid.

This website https://www.grantfinder.co.uk/launch-of-the-scottish-zero-emission-bus-challenge-fund-scotzeb/ details maximum grants as:
  • £80,000 for a ZEB with at least 9 passenger seats and at least one wheelchair accessible space.
  • £140,000 for a ZEB with a total capacity for 32 or more passengers.
  • £180,000 for a battery-electric ZEB with at least 45 seats and a maximum theoretical range of at least 310 km.
  • £180,000 for battery-electric ZEB with a total capacity for 60 or more passengers.
  • £230,000 for a hydrogen fuel-cell ZEB with at least 45 seats and a maximum theoretical range of at least 310 km.
  • £230,000 for a hydrogen fuel-cell ZEB with a total capacity for 60 or more passengers.
  • 75% of the capital costs for electric charging infrastructure.
  • 85% of the capital costs for hydrogen refuelling infrastructure.
That is correct. It is largely the difference between buying conventional diesel powered vehicles, and their zero emission equivalent. The Ember coaches would fall into the £180k category, based on their capacity.
 

route101

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Ember must be selling a lot of tickets at the bus or people booking very late as the majority of services show up as 30+ seats available. That's on both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Though I of course know Glasgow is still not fully launched.
I think the price on board is the same as the price in advance.
 

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