Which train company brand names does the public know and use, and why?

Ex-controller · 25 Jun 2022

windingroad said:
I think even now (post-nationalisation) I'd say a large minority have no real understanding of who runs ScotRail or what the arrangement has been in the past. As a brand name it feels sufficiently distinct (from government or franchisees) that I suspect many people see it as a standalone company.

Personally once it's in better shape again I'd welcome a rebrand, as unlikely as that is.

ScotRail has been a branded entity since the early 1980s and is thoroughly established with the public to the point where it’s plays the same role as the term ‘British Rail’ did in the rest of Britain prior to privatisation.

There would be no point in changing it.

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windingroad · 25 Jun 2022

Ex-controller said:
ScotRail has been a branded entity since the early 1980s and is thoroughly established with the public to the point where it’s plays the same role as the term ‘British Rail’ did in the rest of Britain prior to privatisation.

There would be no point in changing it.

You're probably right, I just don't like it aesthetically. I'd prefer something like "Scottish Railways".

LNW-GW Joint · 26 Jun 2022

Gareth said:
This was a few years ago now, so I suspect they were talking about a pacer via the CLC, some of which were Merseyrail branded in the not too distant past.

And yet the new interchange* at Newton le Willows is in Mersey(travel) yellow colours, similar to Merseyrail trains.
It's in St Helens borough which is part of Merseyside and is therefore Merseytravel branded.
The fact that it is served by Northern, TPE and TfW-branded trains is neither here nor there.

*funded, like the Halton Curve, as part of the Liverpool City Region deal.

Gareth · 26 Jun 2022

Frothy_B · 26 Jun 2022

I would say, although it's purely from my own limited experience, that Thameslink would stand out as its own brand. Certainly in my small circle, we'd be likely to differentiate getting a Thameslink service from Bedford as opposed to "the purple ones" from Wellingborough or Kettering.

The only reason that distinction exists is because of the price though. It makes so much more sense to drive to Bedford first.

Ken H · 26 Jun 2022

I am afraid my extended family refer to all trains as 'the puffer'. Goes back to when kids were little nearly 50 yrs ago. Been taken up by grandkids too now.

lxfe_mxtterz · 27 Jun 2022

The other week ago - can't quite remember where it was; possibly Wimbledon - the guard of the train I was on made an announcement and remarked that you could "change for First Capital Connect services"!

LeeLivery · 27 Jun 2022

Thameslink and the Overground are probably best known in London. I hear 'Southern' and 'Southeastern' a lot, and I've always said 'South West' rather than SWT/R. Of course 'the train', or simply 'train' (us millennials, around here at least, tend to drop 'the') is far, far more used. But I think because our brand names in the Southern Region have lasted so long, it's almost hard not to remember unless you're not a regular user.

What do people in Northern Ireland say?

thenorthern said:
The best known brand is probably still Virgin Trains even though it no longer exists.

With branding I think it depends on how good the company was similar to ITV companies. It's still common to hear people say Granada, Yorkshire or Central when they are referring to ITV even though the names haven't been used for on air branding since 2002 or 1999 with Central. On the other hand when when was the last time you heard someone refer to ITV as Carlton?

Yep, I think deep down, ITV will always be 'Anglia' to my mum, (even in London).

Frothy_B said:
I would say, although it's purely from my own limited experience, that Thameslink would stand out as its own brand. Certainly in my small circle, we'd be likely to differentiate getting a Thameslink service from Bedford as opposed to "the purple ones" from Wellingborough or Kettering.

The only reason that distinction exists is because of the price though. It makes so much more sense to drive to Bedford first.

I lived in Wellingborough as a kid, do people still ever say 'Midland Mainline' or even 'Intercity'? I know that's getting on in years.

Kilopylae · 27 Jun 2022

I know "Great Western" is well-used to refer to GWR, though I have no idea whether people are abbreviating 'First Great Western' or 'Great Western Railway' in their heads. "T.P.E." also well-used.

My family and friends still refer to CrossCountry as Virgin, or more specifically, they use "a Virgin train" to mean a Voyager. I remember them discussing in 2021 wanting to get a Great Western rather than a Virgin from Bristol to Exeter.

Parallel said:
I hear ‘South West Trains’ more than SWR. Maybe because it’s punchy and easy to say.

I sometimes still say SWT myself out of habit.

linmanfu said:
Northern, often as "Northern Fail"

I once heard a Londoner talk about "the overground" meaning National Rail in contrast to the Underground. But that was someone who lived in Wimbledon and drove around London. I don't think many people would make that 'mistake' if they lived in Brockley, New Cross, and other places where National Rail vs (London) Overground makes a big difference to where you go, how fast you go, and how much you pay.

Everyone I know from Thirsk says Northern Rail, Grand or "Great" Central, and T. P. E. (always as letters).

My friend in Lewes says 'the overground' for all above-ground trains in London, including, once, the Metropolitan line from Hillingdon to Finchley Rd. My friend in Stratford is a bit more precise but does refer to non-TfL services as 'overground' in casual conversation.

bicbasher said:
My mother who is in no way an enthusiast calls Southern "the green trains" and London Overground "the Overground."

The same friend in Stratford calls LO the Overground, calls the Elizabeth line TfL rail (including to Canary Wharf), and Greater Anglia 'the weird red ones'. I always struggle with this last one because I think of GA as primarily grey, not red--probably because I'm thinking of the map.

Doomotron · 27 Jun 2022

I've heard people refer to the Javelins as Javelins, as opposed to 'the high speed one', which is what I would have expected a lot of people to say. However, I do hear people say they go to King's Cross instead of St Pancras, which is always infuriating.

Some people I know also refer to anything going through the Channel Tunnel as the Eurostar, and referring to the tunnel itself as the EuroTunnel.

Irascible · 27 Jun 2022

Kilopylae said:
I know "Great Western" is well-used to refer to GWR, though I have no idea whether people are abbreviating 'First Great Western' or 'Great Western Railway' in their heads. "T.P.E." also well-used.

It's always just been Great Western colloquially unless you're specifically talking about the current TOC. It was Great Western Trains before First ever got involved. There's enough GWR history embedded ( in the far SW anyway ) that I'd occasionally run into people saying either Great Western or "the Western" in BR days.

telstarbox · 27 Jun 2022

With the recent (ish) changes Thameslink is probably well known shorthand for the St Pancras - London Bridge core, as in "you only need to change once if you get the Thameslink".

Thinking about it would Thameslink and Crossrail make more sense if they swapped names - Thameslink roughly paralleling the river and Crossrail crossing the city?

61653 HTAFC · 27 Jun 2022

Kilopylae said:
Everyone I know from Thirsk says Northern Rail, Grand or "Great" Central, and T. P. E. (always as letters).

In my experience (West Yorks) TPE are almost always called "Transpennine" (all one word) rather than saying the letters... except when talking about the local stopper, in which case people still say Northern!

Gareth · 27 Jun 2022

telstarbox said:
Thinking about it would Thameslink and Crossrail make more sense if they swapped names - Thameslink roughly paralleling the river and Crossrail crossing the city?

"Thameslink" comes from linking both sides of the river, surely?

Irascible · 27 Jun 2022

Gareth said:
"Thameslink" comes from linking both sides of the river, surely?

Crossrail arguably links the river on each side of London, too!

What are random people in London calling Crossrail?

DelayRepay · 28 Jun 2022

Irascible said:
Crossrail arguably links the river on each side of London, too!

What are random people in London calling Crossrail?

Most people I know call it Crossrail. I've only seen/heard Elizabeth Line used on the news and in official publicity.

BananaRepublic · 28 Jun 2022

Relatives and friends in Kent refer to the Kent high speed service as ”the Bullet”.
They take “the Bullet” up to London, as opposed to “the slow train” (Southeastern on the classic lines).

South West Trains still seems to be widely used down here on the south coast.
I’m guilty of falling into that trap quite often, myself.
It’s probably a combination of SWT rolling off the tongue more easily than SWR and the fact that SWT held the franchise for 20 plus years and we’re synonymous with the transformation of the musty old BR service, with its clapped out slam door stock, into a modern, clean railway, with modern, clean stock (that has worn off, with the state that SWR railway let the trains get into, before the refurbishment program gained traction).

As for Eurostar and the tunnel.
I’ve occasionally heard people say they took, or were planning to take the car over to France on the Eurostar !!!
That’s a bit of an exception though, as it’s normally referred to as “the shuttle” in my experience.

.

AM9 · 28 Jun 2022

Irascible said:
Crossrail arguably links the river on each side of London, too!

What are random people in London calling Crossrail?

'Crossrail' may stay in the minds of those who remember it's extended birth, but the continuous official promotion as "the Elizabeth Line" will I suggest get shortened to the 'Lizzie' or the 'Liz' by a large proportion of those from the South-East corner of England as it's utility becomes common knowledge. That will be even more relevant when its GE & GW services are fully integrated.
'Thameslink' (without 'the') is common parlance in Herts - certainly for the MML route, and despite much criticism here, is seen as a generally reliable route into central London and beyond.

AlbertBeale · 29 Jun 2022

As with some others here, my experience (largely not from "train people") is that people just say "by train" and almost never say (or even know about) different companies. The biggest exception is that friends often - though not always - refer to Eurostar if they're going to the continent. Also, Londoners sometimes refer to brands/modes when distinguishing "proper trains" serving local London needs from the Underground. So I hear people mentioning Thameslink sometimes, and occasionally, more recently, Crossrail. "Overground" is ambiguous, since many Londoners use the term (and have for generations) - with a small "o" - to mean any suburban "main line" train, to distinguish them from the Underground.

The main other occasions when I've heard "normal people" mentioning TOCs/brands is when they do so with annoyance, when realising that some trains have different prices on the same route, eg Gatwick Express and so on.

urbophile · 29 Jun 2022

AM9 said:
'Crossrail' may stay in the minds of those who remember it's extended birth, but the continuous official promotion as "the Elizabeth Line" will I suggest get shortened to the 'Lizzie' or the 'Liz' by a large proportion of those from the South-East corner of England as it's utility becomes common knowledge.

'Purple Betty' is a name I have heard recently. Or Geoff Marshall's Cross/Liz/Purp.

Western Sunset · 29 Jun 2022

Maybe TfL needs to brand some of their Overground lines more specifically, rather than just huge swathes of orange...

Still think Virgin is probably the strongest brand name; particularly with their extensive TV airline ads at the mo that keeps their profile high.

norbitonflyer · 29 Jun 2022

Irascible said:
Crossrail arguably links the river on each side of London, too!

Only five Purple stations south of the Thames, and three of those are in Berkshire.

urbophile · 29 Jun 2022

Western Sunset said:
Still think Virgin is probably the strongest brand name; particularly with their extensive TV airline ads at the mo that keeps their profile high.

Do they still run any trains?

Steddenm · 29 Jun 2022

Had somebody ask me today at Dover Priory if the SE service to London was the Network SouthEast train. But she was about 80.

Doomotron · 29 Jun 2022

Steddenm said:
Had somebody ask me today at Dover Priory if the SE service to London was the Network SouthEast train. But she was about 80.

Just goes to show how good NSE's marketing was.

Western Sunset · 29 Jun 2022

urbophile said:
Do they still run any trains?

Does Hoover still make vacuum cleaners?

maniacmartin · 30 Jun 2022

My mother still tells me that she is travelling on "GNER" when she travels anywhere on the ECML. Even Hull Trains is "GNER" to her.
Also, she treats "Thameslink" and "Great Northern" as synonyms. All underground stations are "the tube" - including a journey from City Thameslink!

I also hear a lot of people in London call any National Rail service "the Overground"

Irascible · 30 Jun 2022

maniacmartin said:
I also hear a lot of people in London call any National Rail service "the Overground"

That's historic, predates the brand Overground by decades.

AM9 said:
'Crossrail' may stay in the minds of those who remember it's extended birth, but the continuous official promotion as "the Elizabeth Line" will I suggest get shortened to the 'Lizzie' or the 'Liz' by a large proportion of those from the South-East corner of England as it's utility becomes common knowledge. That will be even more relevant when its GE & GW services are fully integrated.
'Thameslink' (without 'the') is common parlance in Herts - certainly for the MML route, and despite much criticism here, is seen as a generally reliable route into central London and beyond.

I dunno... I was a resident for a long time & things have a great habit of just sticking even if nobody knows the origin. "Elizabeth" is the same number of syllables as "Victoria" but is somehow much more of a mouthful... no way is that going to stick

"The Betty" would be fun.

AlbertBeale · 30 Jun 2022

Irascible said:
That's historic, predates the brand Overground by decades.

Indeed - in my suburban family it used to be universal as a name for local "proper trains" in the London area. Hence the silliness of branding some of those trains the Overground, just because they're organised by TfL rather than NR.

AM9 · 30 Jun 2022

Irascible said:
That's historic, predates the brand Overground by decades.

I dunno... I was a resident for a long time & things have a great habit of just sticking even if nobody knows the origin. "Elizabeth" is the same number of syllables as "Victoria" but is somehow much more of a mouthful... no way is that going to stick "The Betty" would be fun.

And the inevitable prefix if there is a problem with a/c in a hot summer?

Which train company brand names does the public know and use, and why?

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