London Midland Ticket Office Changes

Ibex · 1 Mar 2011

I've just noticed on the London Midland website that changes are now in the pipeline for ticket office opening hours, with 9 stations being recommended for closure.

London Midland today (01 March 2011) launched a consultation with passengers and other stakeholders on proposed new opening hours for 86 of its ticket offices.

Across the rail industry, the ways in which passengers buy tickets is changing. London Midland now feels that the time is right to review its approach to selling tickets to keep pace with customer demand.

The highlight of the review was that less than half of all tickets for journeys on our services are now purchased through our ticket offices.

Alex Hynes, Commercial Director for London Midland said: We have looked carefully at how our ticket offices are being used and we now want to ensure that they are even more efficient and meet more closely the needs of our passengers.

We are proposing a whole range of changes to our ticket office opening times, from minor changes of a couple of hours to recommending the closure of nine ticket offices.

I want to reassure all of our passengers that London Midland will be taking action to ensure that our high standards of customer service will not be compromised by any changes we eventually make to our ticket office opening hours.

To support the changes London Midland has also recognised the importance of reviewing station facilities needed by passengers. This has resulted in a decision to make further significant investment in its stations as part of a package of measures to ensure that high levels of customer service are maintained.

One important measure to support the changes is the proposed installation of an additional 29 new Ticket Vending Machines across the network.

At the same time a programme to upgrade help points will be undertaken at our stations, along with a raft of other measures that will ensure London Midlands passengers continue to enjoy their journey experience.

If you would like more details of the proposed changes to ticket office opening hours please click here or see the poster currently being displayed at local stations.

The 9 stations recommended for ticket office closures are:

Adderley Park
Bescot Stadium
Cheddington
Duddeston
Jewellery Quarter
Lye
Small Heath
Witton
Wythall

This isn't a good sign for the staff who work at these stations but hopefully they will be used to fill vacancies at other stations, rather than lose their job altogether.

I'm sure this will spark a reaction in terms of safety being compromised at these stations by a certain Mr Crow and the likes.

I think this is also confirmation for some members that Rugeley Trent Valley won't get a ticket office!

RailUK Forums

Fred26 · 1 Mar 2011

I find this sad. My thought is always that as long as the clerk is taking more than he earns and uses in resources (negligible), the office should remain.

TomJ93 · 1 Mar 2011

If anyone complains about Adderly Parks being closed they are getting a slap!

On the subject of ticket offices whats happening at Berkswell?

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

James564 said:
I think this is also confirmation for some members that Rugeley Trent Valley won't get a ticket office!

I think we've all gotten over that now

James564 said:
One important measure to support the changes is the proposed installation of an additional 29 new Ticket Vending Machines across the network

You mean ticket machines that are unreliable, don't work sometimes and can be a bit of a pain in the ass?

TomJ93 said:
If anyone complains about Adderly Parks being closed they are getting a slap!

I'm complaining, slap me!

But I think the key word in all of what James said was RECOMMEND and just because someone does that, doesn't mean that it is going to happen

SS4 · 1 Mar 2011

IanPooleTrains said:
You mean ticket machines that are unreliable, don't work sometimes and can be a bit of a pain in the ass?

I agree although I think human ignorance and technophobes play an important part to play when it comes to the bad press of machines. For example last Friday the person in front didn't know how to add a child although it's the second screen straight after choosing the destination.

Does Witton get any traffic apart from Villa are at home?

ainsworth74 · 1 Mar 2011

IanPooleTrains said:
I think we've all gotten over that now

No not all of us IPT, not all. :lol:

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

ainsworth74 said:
No not all of us IPT, not all.

No, I am getting over it

I got a letter off of them this morning basically telling me to kiss their big green and black ass

MidnightFlyer · 1 Mar 2011

Never kmind closing nine booking offices, are they trying to tell us that people would rather d*ck about with a machine and talk into a box to a control point 50 miles than ask a person?

What absolute rubbish, I sincerly hope this doesn't become reality.

TomJ93 · 1 Mar 2011

It receives 1tph each way, and is near one of the largest stations in thw UK!

jd · 1 Mar 2011

It's very clear that this is the company trying to save as much money as possible to bump profits for the shareholders. Drivers have been striking for better conditions (some may argue a little overzealously but that's a different debate for a different day) and now LM can't cope with a little drop in profits, so they're looking to cut the wage bill in other areas.

Many of these cuts are absolutely disgraceful - especially where stations are being closed or cut to as little as two hours per day, Monday to Friday, and especially against a backdrop of rising fares, strikes by train crew, cancelled services due to overtime ban, increasingly poor reliability of the 150 fleet, and never-ending delays to the delivery of the 172s.

I think these cuts are short-sighted. Closing stations in the evenings will lead to falls in revenue - guards are significantly less likely to go out ticket checking/issuing in the late evening, as we all know, so it is likely that there will be more dishonest passengers, or people who simply can't get the ticket they want from a machine, travelling without paying any fare in the evenings. Stations will be less secure - in the West Mids especially passengers are used to having stations staffed from the start to end of service, and all the security benefits that brings with it. Closing stations early will mean toilets and waiting facilities are locked all evening, and stations will be left open all night, meaning increased vandalism and potential for homeless people to start frequenting the stations.

There is a consultation open, though interestingly LM don't want to hear your opinions, they only give Passenger Focus and London TravelWatch contacts - so this suggests to be that the matter has already been decided in LM's mind, they just wish to pretend they are having a consultation.

See here: http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/proposed-changes-to-ticket-office-opening-hours/?=

You might also want to contact them via Twitter http://twitter.com/londonmidland/

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

MattE2010 said:
Never kmind closing nine booking offices, are they trying to tell us that people would rather d*ck about with a machine and talk into a box to a control point 50 miles than ask a person?

What absolute rubbish, I sincerly hope this doesn't become reality.

Welcome to the reality that is my local station

Ivo · 1 Mar 2011

A quick comparison based on 2009/10 usage figures...

Adderley Park: 29,614
Bescot Stadium: 83,552
Cheddington: 69,732
Duddeston: 138,058
Jewellery Quarter: 293,888
Lye: 102,816
Small Heath: 80,246
Witton: 170,228
Wythall: 44,796

Thoughts:

Adderley Park: I didn't even realise it was staffed in the first place!
Bescot Stadium: Agreed, but keep a portable office for when Walsall play at home.
Cheddington: It may be small, but closing one station on the London route would be a bit of a white elephant in my opinion, so give it the benefit of the doubt.
Duddeston: Busier than I thought, probably worth keeping open to be honest.
Jewellery Quarter: Are they mad?
Lye: Marginal. I would suggest keeping an office for the AM peak.
Small Heath: Probably a case here, but it's close.
Witton: No. Too busy. And it serves as an alternative to the much busier Aston for locals.
Wythall: Another I would suggest keeping open in the AM peak only.

MidnightFlyer · 1 Mar 2011

IanPooleTrains said:
Welcome to the reality that is my local station

Thanks for that IPT.

When are TOCs gonna realise, staff ain't just there to sell tickets (which should be complenting guards), they are there for help, such as finding out how trains are running, journey planning, and can be useful in times of trouble. I'm sure the people of Birmingham will be pleased at stations previuosly staffed for all trains being culled to those in the daylight hours. Maybe if the managers took hope £75,000 maximum a year, they could afford to keep them.

Mojo · 1 Mar 2011

The planned new opening hours have also been posted on the LM website, accessible via the linked page.

This will really hit stations in the ex-West Midlands County, which bar a few exceptions (Bloxwich stations, Earlswood, Whitlocks End, etc.) have historically had staffed ticket offices from the start of traffic until the close of traffic, thanks to a subsidy by the WMPTE. As WMPTE is no longer a cosignatory to the franchise agreement I understand there is no longer the political pressure to maintain continual ticket office service throughout the day.

Some of the cuts are very harsh too; ignoring the closures for one second, Tyseley for example will go down from 06.02 - 23.50 to 07.00 - 09.00.

I have always questioned the nature of all-day staffing some stations in the area; Tyseley being one, and others such as Adderley Park with ~30,000 passengers per year and 1tph each way; where you have stations in other areas (eg. Filton Abbey Wood with nearly half a million passengers a year and no staffing whatsoever[1])

Many of these stations also have no ticket machines. Will LM install them or what?

I have supported the ticket office cuts on London Underground because of the fact all stations have staff rostered at all times (bar exceptions for outlying stations where staff have meal reliefs which was the case in the old rosters too, despite what RMT want you to believe), and the fact that Smartcards, online ticketing, advanced passenger operated machines and station staffing were still around. The railway network in the ex-West Midlands County is probably the best in the country outside London and despite the somewhat ugly nature of some of the stations have always found them reasonable to wait at. Many stations are locked up overnight by the ticket office staff when they go home at night. Will LM really be sending a man in a van around to see off all the last trains? Let's see how long before Tyseley gets burned down again...

[1] Filton Abbey Wood has recently had Weekday staffing reinstated from 13.00 - 19.00 provided by a man in the building under the footbridge with an Avantix

dcmbarton · 1 Mar 2011

I have seen the proposed changes to the opening times at Lichfield City and Lichfield Trent Valley. In all honesty, the staff have so little ticket/route knowledge, that I doubt any reduction in hours will have much effect. On the previous five times I've bought tickets in person at LTV, the wrong ones have been issued (and they were just simple returns); equally, I'm afraid my route knowledge seems to be much better than the staff who have no idea about advising passengers what to do in the event of delays or cancellations (that sounds a bit arrogant...it's not meant to!). It's always sad to see reductions in staff hours, but if the staff aren't able to provide even the most basic of service to passengers then I can see why such a move is probably inevitable. Very few people buy tickets in person at LTV - there is always a much longer queue at the machine than in the ticket office!

David

87015 · 1 Mar 2011

Top stuff, I like an (even more) free railway :lol:

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

Well I want to bring you all back to something that was brought up in the thread I started when I called for RTV to be staffed and a thought that a lot of you shared at the time

This is all going to cost money to get the machines installed and to have them operated on and it might save money as well but the fact is, is the overall cost of installing the machines going to overshadow the saving of expenditure that they make when they shut the ticket offices down.

And would people use them? All of the stations aforementioned either head in the direction of Birmingham New Street or Birmingham Moor Street/Snow Hill and people have found a way to 'beat the system' at those three stations

MidnightFlyer · 1 Mar 2011

IanPooleTrains said:
And would people use them? All of the stations aforementioned either head in the direction of Birmingham New Street or Birmingham Moor Street/Snow Hill and people have found a way to 'beat the system' at those three stations

Until you get to the barrier at Snow Hill, Moor St or New St! I would have thought it takes longer to buy a ticket from a machine than from a human, especially with the complexity of our fares system. Still, at least those of us on PRIV can get away with it - anyone care to try and buy a priv ticket from a self service machine. You can't. Oh dear. their loss of revenue. And I potentially get a journey free.

Mojo · 1 Mar 2011

MattE2010 said:
Until you get to the barrier at Snow Hill, Moor St or New St!

At New Street you can avoid the barrier by exiting via the lifts. When I was last at Snow Hill you could avoid the barrier by exiting via the Tram platform (don't know if this is still possible). Oh, and the gateline staff go home at 6.50pm anyway.

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

And at Moor Street, they always have the barriers open on the P1 side so people can walk on or off at will

87015 · 1 Mar 2011

Mojo said:
At New Street you can avoid the barrier by exiting via the lifts, or the unalarmed fire exits in the Subway. When I was last at Snow Hill you could avoid the barrier by exiting via the Tram platform (don't know if this is still possible). Oh, and the gateline staff go home at 6.50pm anyway.

At New Street you just walk straight past them! Flash something remotely ticket shaped or orange if you are nervous.

Shouldn't MattE2010 as an honourable member of staff be going to buy his ticket at destination though?

MidnightFlyer · 1 Mar 2011

87015 said:
At New Street you just walk straight past them! Flash something remotely ticket shaped or orange if you are nervous.

Shouldn't MattE2010 as an honourable member of staff be going to buy his ticket at destination though?

Nooooo, everyone now knows about the genius way to escape New St ticketless (it is possible at Reading too).

If I get a train from the unstaffed Wythnall to Wootton Wawen (what a delightful name!), and no guard comes through, what am I meant to do (both stations are unstaffed. I do always try and buy tickets if possible, in this event I probably would from the guard on a seperate train.

Mojo · 1 Mar 2011

jd said:
It's very clear that this is the company trying to save as much money as possible to bump profits for the shareholders. Drivers have been striking for better conditions (some may argue a little overzealously but that's a different debate for a different day) and now LM can't cope with a little drop in profits, so they're looking to cut the wage bill in other areas.

I think this is a good point. Is there the chance that the unreasonable settlements given to train crew has been to the detriment of their colleagues on the stations who cannot as easily go on strike or stop working?

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

But, as a counterpoint of sorts Mojo, striking drivers and striking staff costs them money anyway so it is a case of which barrel of the gun do you wanna be shot with

TomJ93 · 1 Mar 2011

Well it's all very well knowing how to avoid ticket staff at stations, but what if you get caught on the train? Worse still by a ticket man with an RPI in tow.

Would it work on these unstaffed stations to say all passengers without a ticket sit in a designated coach and any caught without a ticket in other coaches have a penalty fare?

IanPooleTrains · 1 Mar 2011

TomJ93 said:
Would it work on these unstaffed stations to say all passengers without a ticket sit in a designated coach and any caught without a ticket in other coaches have a penalty fare?

As good as an idea as that sounds, how practical is that going to be in reality?

Mojo · 1 Mar 2011

TomJ93 said:
Would it work on these unstaffed stations to say all passengers without a ticket sit in a designated coach and any caught without a ticket in other coaches have a penalty fare?

Why should passengers with no ticket down to the inability of the railway company to provide adequate facilities for them to buy one pre-travel through no fault of their own be forced to sit in a certain carriage?

jd · 1 Mar 2011

Mojo said:
Will LM really be sending a man in a van around to see off all the last trains? Let's see how long before Tyseley gets burned down again...

Very good point which I didn't think of...

dcmbarton said:
In all honesty, the staff have so little ticket/route knowledge, that I doubt any reduction in hours will have much effect. On the previous five times I've bought tickets in person at LTV, the wrong ones have been issued (and they were just simple returns); equally, I'm afraid my route knowledge seems to be much better than the staff who have no idea about advising passengers what to do in the event of delays or cancellations (that sounds a bit arrogant...it's not meant to!). It's always sad to see reductions in staff hours, but if the staff aren't able to provide even the most basic of service to passengers then I can see why such a move is probably inevitable.

To be fair, that isn't the fault of the ticket office staff. It's well-known, and has been discussed on here on more than one occasion to my mind, that LM ticket office training is pretty dire.

Mojo said:
Why should passengers with no ticket down to the inability of the railway company to provide adequate facilities for them to buy one pre-travel through no fault of their own be forced to sit in a certain carriage?

Exactly. Many passengers (myself included) like to travel in a particular coach if possible. Usually the one closest to the exit at their destination station.

Pumbaa · 1 Mar 2011

87015 said:
Top stuff, I like an (even more) free railway

Why waste the money paying someone to collect the fares from punters when the Govt will give you the money for free?!

CliveJones · 1 Mar 2011

jd said:
I
There is a consultation open, though interestingly LM don't want to hear your opinions, they only give Passenger Focus and London TravelWatch contacts - so this suggests to be that the matter has already been decided in LM's mind, they just wish to pretend they are having a consultation.

^^This.

They are, I believe, obliged to consult with PF, but we all know what PF will think ("that's bad mmmkey") and LM don't really care one jot.

This has been coming for a very long time. We first heard something was going to happen it last year (Aug or Sep I think), and the only thing that will stop them is the DFT (Apparently management haven't actually asked permission for all this yet).

In response to the passenger numbers listed earlier:
The new hours are based on ticket sale quantities for each hour of the day. They took two samples one in May and one in Dec.
Which is why they may not make sense when compared to usage. It depends on if those people buy tickets, and when.

Ivo said:
A quick comparison based on 2009/10 usage figures...
Jewellery Quarter: Are they mad?

No. Most people are travelling TO JQ not from. They sell very few tickets. Maybe even less than Tyseley.

London Midland Ticket Office Changes

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