Major delays for SWT

DarloRich · 10 Jun 2011

Squaddie said:
After 2 hours or more on a stationary train, and with probably little in the way of information or assistance from the "wastes of oxygen" (to use Ferret's words) who run and work on our railways, I'd be getting off the train too. Rather than charging the passengers with trespass, the TOCs should be charged with unlawful imprisonment.

thanks for that mate! Cheers. I might as well just kill my self now. Do you actually have any idea what you are talking about? No - didnt think so.

The people who got off the train made it worse for those who stayed on board and those stuck on the other trains. Who is the most selfish here? THE THIRD RAIL WAS STILL LIVE! FFS

But hey, that is ok becuase it is all the people who work on the railway fault for not giving each and every person an upadate and an exact time when their train will be moving along with a comprehensive technical breakdown of the fualt, what is being done to fix it, by whom and using what kit AND Giving an update every 5 minutes

RailUK Forums

Metroland · 10 Jun 2011

At least with the signal failure is is possible to do temporary block working/talk by the signals. Still delay but you can get trains moving.

Once people get off trains and the third rail has to be isolated, nothing can move. There is not tens of diesel trains sitting around to rescue de-mobilised electric trains, assuming they can get to the electric trains anyway with everything stacked up.

PhilipW · 10 Jun 2011

If I was stuck on a train for hours with little or no information about what was happening and when we could expect to get moving again, I would be thinking about what I could do to get out of that situation. That is just human nature clicking in.

Should not the guard be walking up and down the train all the time checking to make sure that everyone is allright, re-assuring them and giving them the latest information that he has. Surely that is his job.

GB · 10 Jun 2011

Squaddie said:
After 2 hours or more on a stationary train, and with probably little in the way of information or assistance from the "wastes of oxygen" (to use Ferret's words) who run and work on our railways, I'd be getting off the train too. Rather than charging the passengers with trespass, the TOCs should be charged with unlawful imprisonment.

:roll:

Ferrets comment about "wastes of Oxygen" was clearly said about the cable thieves.

Surreytraveller · 10 Jun 2011

GB said:
:roll:

Ferrets comment about "wastes of Oxygen" was clearly said about the cable thieves.

I had to read it three times before I realised that, though!

Railjet · 10 Jun 2011

BBC article: MP for Mole Valley, Sir Paul Beresford, said: "It seems to me as though there was a lack of communication between Network Rail and South West Trains, particularly as evacuation has to be done really carefully.

"Someone should have been telling the drivers and the drivers should have been telling people."

Why is it so difficult to communicate these things with passengers? I was on a local train on the single line between Freilassing and Landshut in Bavaria this week. When we stopped at one station, the driver immediately informed passengers that there would be a delay of about 5 minutes while we awaited a slightly delayed crossing train - delay was 4 minutes. At a later station, driver immediately announced that there would be a delay of a few minutes while we awaited a passing freight train (delay was 3 minutes).

Clearly no communication problems there.

DarloRich · 10 Jun 2011

Railjet said:
Why is it so difficult to communicate these things with passengers? I was on a local train on the single line between Freilassing and Landshut in Bavaria this week. When we stopped at one station, the driver immediately informed passengers that there would be a delay of about 5 minutes while we awaited a slightly delayed crossing train - delay was 4 minutes. At a later station, driver immediately announced that there would be a delay of a few minutes while we awaited a passing freight train (delay was 3 minutes).

Clearly no communication problems there.

A slight difference between being told you are being held for a train to cross in front of you and working out how long it will take to restore power to a large section of main line

ushawk · 10 Jun 2011

More delays now, person hit by a train at Southampton Central, delays of 50 mins - really not a good week for SWT. Looks like FGW are diverting via Chandlers Ford as trains are showing as not calling at SOU only.

Lampshade · 10 Jun 2011

Gus said:
Where the power was cut off, I assume that means no Air Con in the carriages, must be pretty awful stuck in a crowded carriage for a few hours with no ventilation.

If they forced the doors open, the chances are it was a 455 which has no air con anyway.

Railjet · 10 Jun 2011

DarloRich said:
A slight difference between being told you are being held for a train to cross in front of you and working out how long it will take to restore power to a large section of main line

That's hardly the issue - clearly other people see there's a major communications problem.

SW Trains: "We are committed to learning any lessons and taking any steps required to improve the flow of information to passengers."

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond: "Whatever the original cause we need a proper robust and reliable system for communicating with passengers and getting them to stations as quickly as possible."

"Anyone running a business, when something goes wrong, needs to talk to their customers."

ushawk · 10 Jun 2011

Most trains at Southampton Central and Airport have been cancelled until about 3PM according to the LDB.

DarloRich · 10 Jun 2011

Agreed - we do - but your example is a totaly different situation.

but the information the passenger wants isnt always instantly availabale. Some passengers expect there to be a big book with every railway repair task and a time scale for that job. Therefore a signal fails: so that will be 47.5 minutes until we will be moving again sir

It doesnt work like that. The information is often: The signal is broken, NR staff are en route/ are on site/ are working to fix it and i will let you know when i know more.

What more do you expect? What information do you want? What more can staff tell you?

There is no use giving an aproximate timescale becuase people just kick off it that is breached . It can make things worse.

What does communication mean? An anouncement ( while there is power) every 5/10/15/20 (?) minutes saying the same things or an announcment when you have something to say?

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

ushawk said:
Most trains at Southampton Central and Airport have been cancelled until about 3PM according to the LDB.

Buses from Eastleigh to Brockenhurst untill 17:00 ish.

Peter Mugridge · 10 Jun 2011

wintonian said:
BBC News link

It appears that some people decided to get off the train and walk to the nearest station - and this is third rail land! :roll: :cry:

Bit worse than that - the report in a paper today ( can't remember which one; either the Telegraph or the Metro ) indicates that the guard actually helped people down out of the train!

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

Peter Mugridge said:
Bit worse than that - the report in a paper today ( can't remember which one; either the Telegraph or the Metro ) indicates that the guard actually helped people down out of the train!

I saw that in (I think) the updated BBC article.

Well if the passengers are going to de-train no matter what you do or say then as soon as you have had the juice cut off I would think ensuring that they do it in as safe a manner as possible would be a good thing - after all most guards aren’t provided with handcuffs and most passengers would complain about being handcuffed anyway.

Squaddie · 10 Jun 2011

DarloRich said:
thanks for that mate! Cheers. I might as well just kill my self now.

I think killing yourself might be a slight over-reaction to what I wrote.

DarloRich said:
Do you actually have any idea what you are talking about? No - didnt think so.

I don't need to know how the rail industry operates to believe that being stuck on a stationary train for hours with neither assistance nor information is acceptable.

DarloRich said:
it is all the people who work on the railway fault for not giving each and every person an upadate and an exact time when their train will be moving along with a comprehensive technical breakdown of the fualt, what is being done to fix it, by whom and using what kit AND Giving an update every 5 minutes

All it takes is a little communication, and that is something that the rail companies are spectacularly bad at.

Thousands of angry passengers say SWT left them stranded

Passengers vented their anger on social network sites, saying that station staff were a "disgrace" and accusing SWT of leaving passengers stranded for hours on trains with no ventilation, food or water.

One man said he was threatened with arrest after "raising his voice" to a member of staff.

One passenger tweeted: "SWT locks passengers on train for five hours with no food, light, air, water, threatens arrest if escape attempted."

Threatening your customers with arrest is an utter disgrace.

DarloRich · 10 Jun 2011

None of that is acceptable - i think we all agree on that - the problem is an understanding of what has to be done in order to effect a rescue and an understanding that the questions passengers, natuarally and understandably, want answers to, mainly when will i get home, cant always be answered straight away.

The passenger has to show patience ( hard i know after 2-3 hours) but having a strop wont help. Yes emergency priocedures can, and should, be reviewed and changed where appropriate but the point remians that lots of things have to be done in order to rescue a train.

I ask again what is communication - An annoucment every 5 minutes to say no change to the situation OR an annoucment when you actually know something.

patience is needed, not deciding to bail out. That just causes more trouble. It is annoying and a pain but just sit tight and wait to be rescued. You are in no danger on the train

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

Squaddie said:
I think killing yourself might be a slight over-reaction to what I wrote.

I don't need to know how the rail industry operates to believe that being stuck on a stationary train for hours with neither assistance nor information is acceptable.

All it takes is a little communication, and that is something that the rail companies are spectacularly bad at.

Thousands of angry passengers say SWT left them stranded

Threatening your customers with arrest is an utter disgrace.

However according to the BTP (from the BBC piece)

British Transport Police said its officers spoke to the passengers at Woking about the dangers of going onto the line without being directed to do so by rail staff or a police officer.
"We understand the concerns of passengers, particularly the heavily pregnant woman, and we are sorry if anyone felt our officers were not sympathetic to their plight."

I think when looking at he said this/ she said that sort of thing you need to look at who is being quoted, in your case youre picking up on a passenger being threatened with arrest, the quote is "One man said he was threatened with arrest after "raising his voice" to a member of staff," how do we know that the same passenger was not also being verbally aggressive?

Newspapers have a habit of defending the punters no matter what they do and blame an awful lot that sometimes is out of their control on the company concerned.

Skimble19 · 10 Jun 2011

Must admit I certainly wouldn't go by, let alone trust the information shown in certain newspapers / websites, let alone half of the often over-hyped quotes from Twitter..

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

Southern Daily Echo

As ever my thoughts are with the staff and family/s involved.

I didn't think this quote from SWT was terrably appropreate:

A South West Trains spokesperson said: "We are extremely disappointed and sorry that our passengers face further disruption today as a result of this earlier incident.

"We will continue to work hard with our colleagues in Network Rail and the police to re-open the line as quickly as possible."

Skimble19 · 10 Jun 2011

Why isn't the quote appropriate?

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

Skimble19 said:
Why isn't the quote appropriate?

Why are they disappointed?

Disappointed because someone has possibly jumped in from of a train or fallen of the bridge and been mowed down or has had some other accident that has ultimately lead to their losing their life?

Latecomer · 10 Jun 2011

I tend to agree. I can understand SWT's disappointment at another day of disruption but it is not a phrase to use in these circumstances when talking about a fatality - or at least there should have been a better emphasis between regret/condolances to the family and disappointment that there has been a series of events that has disrupted so many peoples journeys.

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

The word disappointment implies that some blame can apportioned, so for example that can be disappointed with yesterday’s disruption as most of the blame can be laid at the door of those who attempted to steal the cable. I don't think you can blame someone for losing their life.

Ferret · 10 Jun 2011

wintonian said:
The word disappointment implies that some blame can apportioned, so for example that can be disappointed with yesterdays disruption as most of the blame can be laid at the door of those who attempted to steal the cable. I don't think you can blame someone for losing their life.

It depends. This may well sound heartless, but I have zero sympathy for selfish people who jump in front of trains to end their lives. I've no doubt I'm about to be shot down in flames for daring to say it - so be it. It's a selfish cowards way out giving no thought to the people left behind to deal with the aftermath. My sympathy lies with the poor driver and the BTP who have to clear up the mess....

wintonian · 10 Jun 2011

Ferret said:
It depends. This may well sound heartless, but I have zero sympathy for selfish people who jump in front of trains to end their lives. I've no doubt I'm about to be shot down in flames for daring to say it - so be it. It's a selfish cowards way out giving no thought to the people left behind to deal with the aftermath. My sympathy lies with the poor driver and the BTP who have to clear up the mess....

You more than likly will be, although I do disagree, you are entitled to your considerd opinion.

whhistle · 10 Jun 2011

It is selfish though

You are getting someone else who has no choice to kill you. But there are plenty of other ways to kill yourself without involving anyone else. Why choose to involve someone who is innocent and isn't looking to kill anyone? Quick, easy yes, but you can jump off a building to make it quick and easy too and that is less likely to hurt anyone else in the process.

Remember, some drivers will always think they have killed someone, even though it is obvious they wouldn't have been able to stop in time.
That thump will never leave you

Stigy · 10 Jun 2011

Three fatalities in as many days for SWT then....Bentley, Moretlake and now Southampton Central.

ushawk · 10 Jun 2011

And then theres the signal problems between Hersham and Weybridge, at Vauxhall and Brookwood and the bridge strike at Ashford and not forgetting the ill passenger on a train at Earlsfield, it has been a bad week for SWT.

Should be noted however, none of these are the fault of SWT. My thoughts and sympathies are with the families of the people involved in the fatalities.

ralphchadkirk · 10 Jun 2011

Stigy said:
Three fatalities in as many days for SWT then....Bentley, Moretlake and now Southampton Central.

I thought the one on the Alton branch happened at Farnham?

Major delays for SWT

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