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Adelantes for FGW (again?)
- Thread starter hmp455
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Who else wants them??
Logical homes would be
* FGW
* TPE
* ATW- I know they rejected 180s in the past but so did FGW.
* CrossCountry
* EMT
EC would be another but it's them who are giving them up even though they've never used them.
That's confidential, unfortunately....
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But I was told, very clearly, by the civil servant at DFT Rail in charge of the FGW franchise that if an open access operator offered commercial rates for them, then they would likely go in that direction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But I was told, very clearly, by the civil servant at DFT Rail in charge of the FGW franchise that if an open access operator offered commercial rates for them, then they would likely go in that direction.
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Would 5 (an extra one) be overkill as a solution to HTs reliability troubles? Are they likely to be getting a reduced leasing rate in view of the reliability issues?
hmp455
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Virgin Trains could also use them...
SWT could also strengthen its Turbo fleet with Adelantes (mind you, there not standard-and it is why they gave up operating 170s a few years back)
SWT could also strengthen its Turbo fleet with Adelantes (mind you, there not standard-and it is why they gave up operating 170s a few years back)
Not to Birmingham though.
MCR247
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Therefore they wouldn't, as they wouldn't want an 110mph train running to Manchester etc
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XC wouldn't as they cant fit through Proof House Tunnels...
swt_passenger
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Which just goes to show how they can change 'policy' on the hoof, because one of the ORR reports about open access to the ECML, almost a year ago now, emphasised that there were no 180s available for open access operators because they had already been allocated to a franchised operator:
anthony263
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When did SWT have any turbo's. its class 158/159's they have
They had some 170s a few years back.
MCR247
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They had 170s before 158s 
They had 170s before 158s
When did they get the 158s? Was it ex-TPE stock along with the 8 x 3 car 158s that they converted to 159s?
swt_passenger
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The overhauled and renumbered 2 car 158s appeared in service during 2007, and were from TPE, this was soon after the 159/1 conversions; but they had already had two 158s (normally used for Bristol-Waterloo portion working I think) for a couple of years before that - 158786/9? Those two were eventually transferred out somewhere so that all 11 of SWT's 2.158s belonged to the same Rosco.
thefab444
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The swap occured between the end of 2006 and mid 2007. SWT swapped 170301 - 170308 for eleven TPE 158s which became 158880 - 158890 upon refurbishment - although a couple operated for SWT under their original numbers and in TPE livery. I think we know who got the better end of that deal. SWT's ninth 170, 170392, went to Southern.
The original SWT Porterbrook 158s, 158786 and 158789, left around the same time as the Turbostars and went to Northern but were subleased to Scotrail, or maybe the other way around. They were intended for use on the Bristol workings, but did turn up on the Romsey shuttles occasionally as 170 availability was never brilliant.
The 159s were originally branded as 'South West Turbos', so that's probably what hmp455 was referring to anyway.
The original SWT Porterbrook 158s, 158786 and 158789, left around the same time as the Turbostars and went to Northern but were subleased to Scotrail, or maybe the other way around. They were intended for use on the Bristol workings, but did turn up on the Romsey shuttles occasionally as 170 availability was never brilliant.
The 159s were originally branded as 'South West Turbos', so that's probably what hmp455 was referring to anyway.
Helvellyn
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I'd have thought that ATW might now be interested? Get 5x180 to replace the WAG express sets, plus strengthen a couple of other 175 duties: -
WAG Express (1) > replace with 5-car 180 (1)
WAG Express (2) > replace with 5-car 180 (2)
3-car 175 (1) > replace with 5-car 180 (3)
3-car 175 (2) > replace with 5-car 180 (4)
2-car 175 (1) > replace with 3-car 175 (1)
2-car 175 (2) > replace with 3-car 175 (2)
3-car 175 (3) > replace with 2x2-car 175(1+2)
2-car 175 (3) > replace with 3-car 175 (3)
3-car 175 (4) > put on 2-car 175 (4) diagram and put 2x2-car 175 (3+4) on 3-car 175 (4) diagram
5-car 180 (5) > maintenance spare at Chester
ATW could increase capacity on a number of services this way, and the 180s could easily be maintained by Alstom at Chester.
WAG Express (1) > replace with 5-car 180 (1)
WAG Express (2) > replace with 5-car 180 (2)
3-car 175 (1) > replace with 5-car 180 (3)
3-car 175 (2) > replace with 5-car 180 (4)
2-car 175 (1) > replace with 3-car 175 (1)
2-car 175 (2) > replace with 3-car 175 (2)
3-car 175 (3) > replace with 2x2-car 175(1+2)
2-car 175 (3) > replace with 3-car 175 (3)
3-car 175 (4) > put on 2-car 175 (4) diagram and put 2x2-car 175 (3+4) on 3-car 175 (4) diagram
5-car 180 (5) > maintenance spare at Chester
ATW could increase capacity on a number of services this way, and the 180s could easily be maintained by Alstom at Chester.
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sprinterguy
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But one has, presumably running up to Oxley during the time that some of them were in store there (It was in late 2008/early 2009), suggesting that they could be cleared for at least the tunnels on the Coventry to Wolverhampton line, even if not for those towards Five Ways. Unfortunately, the only proof I can provide is my own word, as regrettably I didn't have a camera handy when I saw it (It was definitely a 180).
Unless it was that move that proved conclusively that they can't fit through those tunnels!
So did SWT actually get 18x158s from TPE and convert 8 3 car ones to 159/1s and leave 10 2 car ones as 158s? If so they got 44 carriages and lost 18 carriages - certainly not a bad deal. I bet EMT would like a similar deal.
MCR247
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Maybe the ones on the Derby line?
RobShipway
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Since FGW will not take an extension on the Great Western franchise, I cannot see the class 180's going to them.
To me the most likely candidate is TPE for the Manchester - Glasgow/Edingburgh services.
Cross Country I doubt will have them because as previous mentioned they cannot fit through Proof House Junction tunnels.
I also cannot see them being used by ATW, for the same reason as I think they are actually slightly wider than the class 175 coaches so again could not fit through some of the tunnels on routes from Birmingham International - Holyhead or Cardiff - Holyhead.
That leaves EMT to use them possibly, but on what routes?
thefab444
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Yes, although the three car units were replaced by the 185s, it's only really the 11 two car 158s for 8 two car 170s where TPE lost out.
Blindtraveler
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love to see TPE get them, a major
improvement if a couple of diagrams per day were 5 car departures from EDB/GLC respectively, attaching at car to form a 10 coach all shacks WCML stopper!
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oh and buffets equals better too!
improvement if a couple of diagrams per day were 5 car departures from EDB/GLC respectively, attaching at car to form a 10 coach all shacks WCML stopper!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
oh and buffets equals better too!
MCR247
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Buffet probably wouldn't be used, and it'd still most likely be as it is! 10 car would be wayy to much!
Blindtraveler
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ur, nooo! 10 there would at least be seats available!
MCR247
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There would be on 5 as well!
I'd like to see SWT get the 180's. Not because it makes any sense at all but...if any depot in the whole country can finally keep a 180 running it must be Salisbury depot (even if the staff had to be trained from scratch). They seem to perform miracles on reliability and always turn out almost spotless trains inside and out.
MCR247
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Theres a reason Salisbury has such good maintenance, as most of the stock based there is because half the fleet will be sat the for half of the day.
Its all right for some..
Its all right for some..
150222
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I know it was a joke but swt would not take the 180's as there are no corridor connections and they have non standard couplers.
I accept people have dismissed the idea of a shared pool, but a TPE/Hull Trains shared pool could actually work pretty well. My thought is that they could be diagrammed mainly on Scotland services for TPE, with some early morning/late evening 'positioning moves' between Manchester and Hull to allow for maintenance rotation.
I agree SWT Salisbury units aren't the heaviest utilised units but they could have just let them rot during down time rather than keep them maintained where possible. SWT are after all experts at penny pinching and ripping customers off. Salisbury depot is their one bright lights..compared to Salisbury station with its ill-informed,rude, slow and basically useless staff and management team.
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