Evergreen 3 Phase 1

Tim B · 31 May 2011

Just returned from a great day out from Marylebone to sunny Solihull to visit a mate and took the opportunity to view progress on the current Chiltern line upgrades.

On the return from Solihull, the 6 minute delayed 18:51 had caught up a minute by Leamington Spa, another minute by Banbury then regained all the remaining 4 minutes delay by Bicester, taking the new Aynho junction fast points as what seemed a fair lick (line speed here now 90 I believe). Below line speed from Gerrards X to Marylebone including a 5 minute wait for an arrival platform but still arrived bang on time at 20:55.

As far as other track enhancements are concerned the Princes Risborough Up Fast line seems far from complete whilst the Northolt Junction new Down Fast line seems pretty much ready. Couldn't work out what's been happening at Gerrards Cross - can anyone tell me ? Much work still in hand at Neasden Junction with a new Up track for the Amersham line in progress.

Can anyone advise whether any or all of these enhancements will be brought into operation in advance of the new timetable in December 2011 ?

Even without the much missed W&S services, how will Chiltern manage capacity at Marylebone once an additional 2 trains an hour to / from Oxford commence ? Or will these Oxford services takes up the paths of existing trains ?

RailUK Forums

MidnightFlyer · 31 May 2011

The timetable change was set back to September, not December. They are closing the Chiltern Main Linesouth of Princes Risborough I think for a full week in August, so I'd expect a lot of connecting work etc to be finished then.

hick · 31 May 2011

Tim B said:
Just returned from a great day out from Marylebone to sunny Solihull to visit a mate and took the opportunity to view progress on the current Chiltern line upgrades.

On the return from Solihull, the 6 minute delayed 18:51 had caught up a minute by Leamington Spa, another minute by Banbury then regained all the remaining 4 minutes delay by Bicester, taking the new Aynho junction fast points as what seemed a fair lick (line speed here now 90 I believe). Below line speed from Gerrards X to Marylebone including a 5 minute wait for an arrival platform but still arrived bang on time at 20:55.

As far as other track enhancements are concerned the Princes Risborough Up Fast line seems far from complete whilst the Northolt Junction new Down Fast line seems pretty much ready. Couldn't work out what's been happening at Gerrards Cross - can anyone tell me ? Much work still in hand at Neasden Junction with a new Up track for the Amersham line in progress.

Can anyone advise whether any or all of these enhancements will be brought into operation in advance of the new timetable in December 2011 ?

Even without the much missed W&S services, how will Chiltern manage capacity at Marylebone once an additional 2 trains an hour to / from Oxford commence ? Or will these Oxford services takes up the paths of existing trains ?

New timetable starts Monday 5th September. First week of the August blockade will see Neasden shut and the second week will see Northolt shut.

The Oxford services will eventually replace the Bicester North terminators likely with a requirement to beef up the local services to High Wycombe as the Oxfords will likely stop at High Wycombe and Haddenham only before branching to Bicester town, Islip and Water Eaton

Chafford1 · 4 Jun 2011

Tim B said:
Just returned from a great day out from Marylebone to sunny Solihull to visit a mate and took the opportunity to view progress on the current Chiltern line upgrades.

On the return from Solihull, the 6 minute delayed 18:51 had caught up a minute by Leamington Spa, another minute by Banbury then regained all the remaining 4 minutes delay by Bicester, taking the new Aynho junction fast points as what seemed a fair lick (line speed here now 90 I believe). Below line speed from Gerrards X to Marylebone including a 5 minute wait for an arrival platform but still arrived bang on time at 20:55.

As far as other track enhancements are concerned the Princes Risborough Up Fast line seems far from complete whilst the Northolt Junction new Down Fast line seems pretty much ready. Couldn't work out what's been happening at Gerrards Cross - can anyone tell me ? Much work still in hand at Neasden Junction with a new Up track for the Amersham line in progress.

Can anyone advise whether any or all of these enhancements will be brought into operation in advance of the new timetable in December 2011 ?

Even without the much missed W&S services, how will Chiltern manage capacity at Marylebone once an additional 2 trains an hour to / from Oxford commence ? Or will these Oxford services takes up the paths of existing trains ?

The attached explains - scroll down to the Gerrards Cross video:

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/content/more-mainline-videos

swt_passenger · 4 Jun 2011

hick said:
The Oxford services will eventually replace the Bicester North terminators likely with a requirement to beef up the local services to High Wycombe as the Oxfords will likely stop at High Wycombe and Haddenham only before branching to Bicester town, Islip and Water Eaton

I haven't been through these timetables in detail, but as you say it is apparent that the future Oxfords all seem to be diversions of existing 'short turns'. I'm going by the set of phase 2 timetables (ie including the future Oxford services) included in the 73rd track access supplementary. Files 09 - 14 as listed here, but obviously subject to change before it all starts...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?dir=\Track Access\2 Completed Consultations\2009\2009.10.27 Chiltern Railways 73rd Supplemental Agreement - consultation closed 23 November 2009&pageid=4591&root=

The Planner · 5 Jun 2011

There have been lots of little changes since that, id ignore it if it were me !!

swt_passenger · 5 Jun 2011

The Planner said:
There have been lots of little changes since that, id ignore it if it were me !!

I did say subject to change! But presumably the broad thrust of the proposals, with the Oxfords being diversions of existing Bicesters etc, will remain?

(Assuming everyone's still expecting the TWA Order to go through some time soon...)

The Planner · 5 Jun 2011

The TWA is pretty much a dead cert, trains will go to Water Eaton first then the rest to Oxford will open a little later is the latest I've heard.

Tim B · 6 Jun 2011

And will Islip and Bicester Town both get improved 2 platform stations ?

Cherry_Picker · 6 Jun 2011

Yes they will.

swt_passenger · 6 Jun 2011

It depends what you read. The original Evergreen 3 proposals certainly do refer to full 2 platform upgrades to both stations, but there is also an FAQ on the website that explains that Islip will not get its 2nd platform until/unless East-West rail happens.

I think at some point the original plans for full double tracking were reduced because they found a particularly expensive section somewhere or other, so deferred it because the intended Chiltern 2 tph can be operated despite having a short single track length.

http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/index.php/faqs#intro

The Planner · 6 Jun 2011

Bicester Town becomes 2 platform, Islip doesn't. It will be single track for about 7 miles from just south of Bicester Town to just south of Islip.

jas_sl · 12 Jun 2011

What exactly are the structural problems found by Chiltern Railways that prevents double tracking (and hence impacts the East-West rail scheme)? I can't find any specific anywhere on the web.

swt_passenger · 12 Jun 2011

I don't think there are any particular structural problems as such, it is just that the work is divided into various phases, and they have decided to wait before actually doing phase 2B.

Phase 1 is the work required for the Oxford service, Phase 2A basically adds gauge clearance for freight through Wolvercot tunnel and is expected to be done concurrently with Phase 1, and Phase 2B provides for double track throughout for the potential East-West rail timetable.

The latter work requires various sections of embankment strengthening - and this is the work they've decided to defer - but only because it isn't needed for the initial Oxford 2 tph service.

The Planner · 12 Jun 2011

I'd be amazed if phase 2B ever happens, it will just get de-scoped and E-W will run as single track with possibly a loop somewhere between Bicester and Bletchley.

starlightEXPRESS · 12 Jun 2011

My understanding is that the weak embankments are being dealt with during Phase 2A. (Some badger setts are being relocated and general regrading and erosion protection will be undertaken.)

I think the main motivation for not double-tracking the entirety of the line is simply as a cost saving.

This document: http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.u...-6-A - Proof of Evidence - Stephen Barker.pdf is a pretty comprehensive chain-by-chain description of the new route.

swt_passenger · 12 Jun 2011

Well spotted - I've read a few of the enquiry documents before but never seen that one. It really does answer a lot of questions about the decision making process doesn't it...

starlightEXPRESS · 12 Jun 2011

swt_passenger said:
Well spotted - I've read a few of the enquiry documents before but never seen that one. It really does answer a lot of questions about the decision making process doesn't it...

Thanks! Of all the official TWA enquiry documents it's probably the most interesting. (Can't say I find the noise mitigation and environmental statements riveting and the the less said about some of the legal jargon the better!)

There are two accompanying appendices: http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/uploads/04Oct2010/CRCL-P-6-B2 - Appendix 2 - Stephen Barker.pdf which unfortunately are rather large and slow to download.

Interestingly the Bicester chord lines will officially be known as the Up and Down Wretchwicks - a nod to the Domesday Village of Middle Wretchwick to the southeast of Bicester.

didcot · 11 Aug 2011

Does anyone know what the latest proposed date is for introduction of the Oxford - Marlebone service?

I think the original proposal was May 2013

Thanks

swt_passenger · 11 Aug 2011

didcot said:
Does anyone know what the latest proposed date is for introduction of the Oxford - Marlebone service?

I think the original proposal was May 2013

Thanks

Not really - it all depends on how long it takes for the TWA order inquiry report to be finished, and for Hammond to agree or disagree.

This sort of thing can't really be predicted, but they should have started work by now according to the original timeline. However, they estimated the actual work would take 12-15 months, so they could still make the deadline as long as thecontractor can start this year, I think, especially if he is in a position to hit the ground running, as they say...

If Chiltern Railways is granted the necessary permissions to go ahead with the scheme, construction is likely to commence in the summer of 2011 (although the exact timing will depend when permissions are granted). The construction programme for the Phase 1 works along the whole of the proposed route is planned to take around 12 to 15 months.

The Planner · 12 Aug 2011

The aspiration is to try and get to Water Eaton for Dec 12 with Oxford following later.

route:oxford · 12 Aug 2011

When undertaking the works, can only hope that some consideration is made to future enhancements of the rail network around Oxford.

Opening Witney-Oxford would take 1000s of cars off the A40 & A34 road every single day.

Unfortunately every 100 cars that in turn didn't come into central Oxford to park would cost Oxford City Council £500K per annum in income.

swt_passenger · 12 Aug 2011

route:oxford said:
Unfortunately every 100 cars that in turn didn't come into central Oxford to park would cost Oxford City Council £500K per annum in income.

Really? Are motorists actually already paying £5000 for an annual parking permit? Or is that what a random parking place takes per day at normal hourly rates?

The Planner · 12 Aug 2011

Oxford has always been extortionate for parking fees. £21.90 for over 8 hours in the main multi storey in the city centre, so £109.50 a week if done that way. Thats why the Park and Ride is so massively popular !

Noguidedbus · 15 Aug 2011

The Planner said:
Oxford has always been extortionate for parking fees. £21.90 for over 8 hours in the main multi storey in the city centre, so £109.50 a week if done that way. Thats why the Park and Ride is so massively popular !

Eye-watering. Not far off London prices, but without the congestion tax.

relayer · 15 Aug 2011

Sorry I may have missed something!!! But as I live near Water Eaton I know that there is nothing there is a halt to be built there?

MidnightFlyer · 15 Aug 2011

relayer said:
Sorry I may have missed something!!! But as I live near Water Eaton I know that there is nothing there is a halt to be built there?

A station is, I don't know about the facilities though. It will be a parkway, however, so despite the lack of facilities in the village itself, it will still serve many people.

andyfrommk · 15 Aug 2011

relayer said:
Sorry I may have missed something!!! But as I live near Water Eaton I know that there is nothing there is a halt to be built there?

There is indeed

relayer · 16 Aug 2011

Sorry all. thanks to the link posted I can now see that what is called water eaton is actually Banbury Rd grain silo. I was thinking about the hamlet 2 miles away

route:oxford · 16 Aug 2011

The Planner said:
Oxford has always been extortionate for parking fees. £21.90 for over 8 hours in the main multi storey in the city centre, so £109.50 a week if done that way. Thats why the Park and Ride is so massively popular !

£24.20 to park at Gloucester Green or Worcester Street for 8 hours on a weekday.

Of course, if you go in on a Saturday, it's a bit different...

£27.40 to park in the Westgate

£30.30 to park in Gloucester Green or Worcester Street.

Evergreen 3 Phase 1

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