Split Ticketing with Anytime Tickets...

For Example - do I just go up to the ticket office at Kings Cross and ask for a single to Cambridge and then for a single from Cambridge to Dullingham which will save me £2.90 on buying one ticket to travel on exactly the same trains ?

The more I look at this the crazier it seems to get - does this work with season tickets as well ?

Yes - it is that simple and it can work with season tickets also. Use of multiple tickets is governed by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage condition 19 which limits what you can do somewhat. The main "point" of condition 19 is that the train must call at the station where you "split" the tickets (not always true but applicable most of the time). Have a read of the conditions yourself and if you have any questions let us know, and the same goes if you need help to determine if a specific journey is valid with split tickets.

Mutant Lemming said:

For Example - do I just go up to the ticket office at Kings Cross and ask for a single to Cambridge and then for a single from Cambridge to Dullingham which will save me £2.90 on buying one ticket to travel on exactly the same trains ?

The more I look at this the crazier it seems to get - does this work with season tickets as well ?

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Yes, as long as said train calls at Cambridge.

Yes, the train does not even have to stop there for seasons longer than 3 in 7

SS4 said:

Yes, the train does not even have to stop there for seasons longer than 3 in 7

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Only when the other ticket is not a season or leisure travel pass, but it still must pass through.

AndrewNTH said:

Only when the other ticket is not a season or leisure travel pass, but it still must pass through.

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Unless both seasons are zonal.

MikeWh said:

Unless both seasons are zonal.

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Ah yes but not if it's the third Wednesday of the month or if the moon is in it's fifth cycle.

No no, you're thinking of the fourth cycle, in the fifth it's only when it has been raining for more than 45 minutes before travel.

AndrewNTH said:

MikeWh said:

Unless both seasons are zonal.

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Ah yes but not if it's the third Wednesday of the month or if the moon is in it's fifth cycle.

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And also not if a cow is sacrificed at Euston.

AndrewNTH said:

S

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(Can I have my free cuddly toy thiniemabob now?)

Mutant Lemming said:

a single from Cambridge to Dullingham ?

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oooooowww.
That's going to be risky! - Especially with the full moon that we have at the moment! I wouldn't try it without a witch's hat, that's certain.
I'd advise splaying your tickets out, face down, in a fan shape and ask the Guard to pick a ticket, any ticket.
If they pick the London to Cambridge portion, then give up. They win.
But if they pick the Cam. to Dullingham portion then stand up and get the whole coach to join you in giving him/her a round of well-earned applause!
That's the prize from playing Rail Ticket Selection!!


The problem is, and we really DO have a problem, is that the Association of UK Bus Companies (aka ATOC or Advantageous Travel Opportunities Concealed and Arrogant Transport Owners in Control) don't want to play at Privatised Industries in the same way as the Utility Companies, Telecoms provider and Health Care Sectors do. Those other Privatised people hound us every day with offers, market insights, calculators, comparisons and all the annoying noise of a free-market. (We can admit it, it is annoying sometimes). But when did BT last threaten you with prosecution for reading your email on a Virgin 3G connection?
But sadly, the Association of UK Bus Companies (plus their friend in Westminster aka EC) don't want their customers to do comparisons, market insights etc.
In fact, they prohibit it.
They even waste their revenue on stopping it. (Sorry, when I wrote 'their revenue' I was referring to 'our fares').

Yes, you CAN save £2.90 by buying two tickets instead of one (while the moon still shines), but what are we going to do about those numpties who think they manage the fares structure with impunity? Isn't that the real question here?

I have done numerous things to reduce fares (buying online, looking for unlimited travel offers, special deals etc, even split up a journey to buy a second ticket as it was cheaper) but haven't blatantly bought two tickets at the same time like that. I would imagine it might pee off the booking clerk a little but have noticed just how many instances there are where this is a cheaper option. I think the Kings Cross - Dullingham one is 'safe' - a change of trains at Cambridge is always necessary and if they upped the Cambridge - Dullingham fare no one would use the train from there. (There's a nice friendly locals pub in the village by the way)

The booking clerk should not be annoyed. Unfortunately a minority of clerks seem to take revenue protection a little too seriously, and the same ones also seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of impartial retailing, which compounds the problem.

Why would it bother the ticket office clerk? I've never had any complaints doing so, and I've even heard the odd instance of ticket office staff hinting heavily that it might be better to split.

Sometimes it can be a bit much for the clerk to take in though, especially at commuter stations where 95% of requests are "a return to London" or ditto "with the Tube". I usually go for "I'd like two different tickets, one from here ... and one from ..."

The only time I have seen a booking clerk get annoyed is where the customer in front of me asked for a combination of tickets, and when they were all printed, asked for the same again for his friend. The customer did not realise it was much easier to specify 2 of everything at the start. The booking clerk did get annoyed, and was rude, which was unfortunate, as it clearly wasn't intentional. I think this was at Sheffield, which has some booking clerks infamous for being rude and obstructive (though some of them are actually pretty good).

I've even known a ticket seller at a certain station do split ticketing automatically when asked for a day return to somewhere where a day return does not exist. Good on him... Why should the ticket seller get annoyed, unless you have a seriously long list of splits?
Is it true though that they can get in to trouble for doing unrequested split tickets?

mikeg said:

Is it true though that they can get in to trouble for doing unrequested split tickets?

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Yes, it goes against impartial retailing rules. By selling you a different ticket to the through ticket, the allocation of revenue will be different (potentially in the selling TOCs favour).

How likely they are to get in trouble depends on the TOC and the tickets offered, I would imagine. In an example like yours, they might get away with hinting that "unfortunately day tickets are only available for shorter journeys, like [the trips in question]"

Ah, I understand the reason now... although in this case it went in another TOC's favour, not the selling TOC's. I still think better of him for doing it, after all, it was to make a DIY day return, not to take advantage of an anomaly. I thought it was the case, that's why I've been a little vague on the details, I don't want this person to get into trouble in case a TOC reads this thread.

It goes against Impartial Retailing (and can be a fail on a mystery shopper survey) if the split is not asked for by the passenger, but it is fine if it is specifically requested by said passenger.

There are times I sell tickets 'over-distance' because there is not a specific return fare for the journey being made but there is for a slightly longer journey. E.g. if they are making a reasonably short journey and there is no open return fare for that journey, but there is for next station along the line. The reason I would give here (if I'm asked) is that the ticket better suited the passenger's needs, however, a mystery shopper should record this as a fail.

Mutant Lemming said:

I have done numerous things to reduce fares (buying online, looking for unlimited travel offers, special deals etc, even split up a journey to buy a second ticket as it was cheaper) but haven't blatantly bought two tickets at the same time like that. I would imagine it might pee off the booking clerk a little but have noticed just how many instances there are where this is a cheaper option. I think the Kings Cross - Dullingham one is 'safe' - a change of trains at Cambridge is always necessary and if they upped the Cambridge - Dullingham fare no one would use the train from there. (There's a nice friendly locals pub in the village by the way)

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If you ask for split tickets altogether for one journey that is not a problem you are quite entitled to! A lot of our BO staff will advise if they know it is cheaper. However please ensure that you ask if the trains you are catching stop at the stations you are splitting at because you will be excessed if you do get on a train with tickets that do not stop where you split them. It always amazes me that passengers say that the BO never told them on this issue and a range of other ticket validity issues. They will assume you know if you don't ask...if they explained every condition attached to every ticket the queues would be miles long! If you are paying less than the full price there will be trains you cannot catch!
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hairyhandedfool said:

It goes against Impartial Retailing (and can be a fail on a mystery shopper survey) if the split is not asked for by the passenger, but it is fine if it is specifically requested by said passenger.

There are times I sell tickets 'over-distance' because there is not a specific return fare for the journey being made but there is for a slightly longer journey. E.g. if they are making a reasonably short journey and there is no open return fare for that journey, but there is for next station along the line. The reason I would give here (if I'm asked) is that the ticket better suited the passenger's needs, however, a mystery shopper should record this as a fail.

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I have sold overdistance tickets where a passenger wants a period return and only day returns to their stop and period return to next stop cheaper than 2 singles. I tell them that there is not the required option and advise of the cost the overdistance ticket and the two singles then it is up to them if they figure out it is cheaper for them. It is the opposite of splitting tickets in order to give someone day returns rather than period returns but once again they need to ask for it.