Scotrail Stock

bb21 · 28 Sep 2011

I don't get to go up to Scotland that often so need some advice regarding stocks / routes in the Glasgow area.

Coming up for a day trip later this week. Planning to go from Edinburgh into Glasgow via the Bathgate line and back some other way. During the day I would like to take in as much stock exclusively for Scotland as I can. The ones I can think of are 314, 318, 320, 322, 334 and 380.

I am planning on visiting a selection of the following lines (not all of them) around Glasgow:

Helensburgh Central
Helensburgh Upper
Balloch
Milngavie
Paisley Canal
East Kilbride
Neilston/Newton
Larkhall
Lanark

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers folks.

RailUK Forums

jopsuk · 28 Sep 2011

Pretty sure you won't get a 322, thought they'd all be withdrawn, replaced by 380s ahead of being sent south to Northern.

SC318250 · 28 Sep 2011

bb21 said:
I don't get to go up to Scotland that often so need some advice regarding stocks / routes in the Glasgow area.

Coming up for a day trip later this week. Planning to go from Edinburgh into Glasgow via the Bathgate line and back some other way. During the day I would like to take in as much stock exclusively for Scotland as I can. The ones I can think of are 314, 318, 320, 322, 334 and 380.

I am planning on visiting a selection of the following lines (not all of them) around Glasgow:

Helensburgh Central
Helensburgh Upper
Balloch
Milngavie
Paisley Canal
East Kilbride
Neilston/Newton
Larkhall
Lanark

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers folks.

Hope you have an enjoyable trip when you come up.

A few points for you:

Class 314 - All Neilston/Newton/Cathcart Circle services, with a few peak Inverclyde services (Gourock/Wemyss Bay). There will be one unit at Railcare Springburn. I had estimated 314203 would have come out of Railcare this weekend, but it hasnt, but it will be out soon in Scotrail livery.
Any spare units will be at Shields/Corkerhill - both observed by Glasgow to Paisley Canal services.

Class 318 - All based Argyle line. If Class 380 shortage a 318 may turn up at Glasgow Central, but most drivers will soon not have them on their cards for service out of Central high level. Spare Class 318 should be at Yoker or Shields.

Class 320 - North Electrics - Balloch/Dalmuir/Milngavie-High Street/Springburn/Airdrie, also Argyle line services. Spare units at Shields/Yoker. 320302 is at Wabtec Doncaster for overhaul. Wont be back until November.

Class 322 - Only 322481/484/485 in Scotland. 322482/483 at Leeds. 322481/485 are a Railcare. 322484 is at Yoker. These should be heading south soon.

Class 334 - Helensburgh/Milngavie - Edinburgh. A few Argyle line services also. Spare units at Shields/Yoker/Bathgate. Overhauls due to start at Broadie Rail, Kilmarnock, opposite Wabtec

Class 380 - Ayrshire/Inverclyde services. Also Edinburgh - North Berwick services. Two services on Cathcart circle am peak. Spare units Shields/Corkerhill. Also Saturdays Ayr Townhead, Sunday also Gourock and Edinburgh.

Hope this is off help

gazthomas · 28 Sep 2011

Is non-electrified, so will be a 156

The Engineer · 28 Sep 2011

This is also Class 156 diagrammed - electrified as far as Corkerhill Depot only. Good ride as it takes you past Shields and Corkerhill depots....

ObservationCar · 28 Sep 2011

Always knew that specific EMU stock in Scotland is a variation of a similar down south counterpart, But reading the OP just made me realise that ALL EMU Stock is a Jockaneese derivative and in the most case always has been, bar 305's coming to Scotland, and 303' going to England. Funny how this only affects EMU's and there are no Exclusive Scottish DMU, would be good if there was though, as most DMU's based in Scotland don't serve the purpose they were designed for.

MCR247 · 28 Sep 2011

380s are an exclusing Scottish EMU

sprinterguy · 28 Sep 2011

MCR247 said:
380s are an exclusing Scottish EMU

They are part of the Desiro UK family though and so are still a derivative of the 350s, 360s, 450s, etc that there are around England, continuing the long Scottish tradition of electric units adapted from other designs as ObservationCar says.

MCR247 · 28 Sep 2011

They aren't really much like 380s etc unless you mean the only thing that could count has to not have ANY relatives in the UK

sprinterguy · 28 Sep 2011

MCR247 said:
They aren't really much like 380s etc unless you mean the only thing that could count has to not have ANY relatives in the UK

True, I suppose there are a lot more differences between a 380 and a 350 than between say a 314 and a 313 or a 320 and a 321, but the family lineage is still there. ish.

Nym · 28 Sep 2011

sprinterguy said:
True, I suppose there are a lot more differences between a 380 and a 350 than between say a 314 and a 313 or a 320 and a 321, but the family lineage is still there. ish.

Yeah, in the same was as it is between a 168 Clubman and 172 Turbostar though...

bb21 · 2 Oct 2011

That's great, folks. I will make a day of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks to you all for the advice. I managed to get a ride on all these classes and saw 322484 at Yoker yard.

I was mightily relieved that I decided to walk from Helensburgh Upper to Helensburgh Central rather than the other way round having now realised what a steep climb it was. I didn't really find the 156 on the West Highland Line particularly comfortable though and can only sympathise with people who have to endure it for the whole journey.

The views along the way to and from Helensburgh was gorgeous and I was particularly pleased with the smooth ride on 380107 on my way back from Glasgow Central to Edinburgh via Carstairs.

MCR247 · 2 Oct 2011

bb21 said:
I was mightily relieved that I decided to walk from Helensburgh Upper to Helensburgh Central rather than the other way round having now realised what a steep climb it was.

The name gives you a clue? No?

bb21 · 2 Oct 2011

MCR247 said:
The name gives you a clue? No?

Yes. I probably should have done more research.

317 forever · 2 Oct 2011

I was also in the area this week, from Tuesday until yesterday, so our paths might have crossed!

The allocations were indeed as indicated, with fairly frequent class 334s on Milngavie-Argyll line workings. Of incidental interest was that all the Whifflet line trains I saw were class 158s while the Shotts services tended to be class 156s, even for the faster services.

I am quite surprised that contracts have just been signed for the refurbishments of class 334s. While this will improve their profile on the recently-opened Airdrie-Bathgate line, and remove the name Strathclyde Passenger Transport from the Edinburgh area, I notice these refurbishments could now start before much headway has been made on class 314 or 320 refurbishments.

SC318250 · 3 Oct 2011

By the end of November 50% of the Class 314 fleet should have been done, unless one of the other 3 that is to get the Saltire livery goes in ahead.

The 5th Class 320 should also go to Doncaster towards the beginning of November.

The 1st of the Class 334 are now due repainting, and with there being enough slack with the fleet at the moment, I think they are right to press on with the overhauls/refurbishment.

The Class 318 will be coming up for their next overhaul, probably C3. 318251 came out of Barclays, Kilmarnock in August 05, so I would think that the 1st one will be due into works towards late 2012/early 2013

rail-britain · 3 Oct 2011

317 forever said:
I am quite surprised that contracts have just been signed for the refurbishments of class 334s
I notice these refurbishments could now start before much headway has been made on class 314 or 320 refurbishments

The Class 334 units would actually be due their first major overhaul before now, they spent the first few years in storage
The Class 320 refurbishment initially encountered problems, but this now appears to have been resolved
As above, now that the SPT fleet is at full strength there is plenty of spare capacity (three spare Class 380 units currently unallocated plus the normal PVR)

Equally, once the Class 314 overhauls are completed then Class 318 overhauls can then commence (if required)
Howver, I suspect this will be delayed until the commencement of the next ScotRail franchise

tbtc · 3 Oct 2011

bb21 said:
I was mightily relieved that I decided to walk from Helensburgh Upper to Helensburgh Central rather than the other way round

Did anyone else use Helensburgh Upper? Its often used in debates about passenger numbers, I think due to the way that "Helensburgh Stations" revenue is allocated between Upper and Central?

The Engineer said:
This is also Class 156 diagrammed - electrified as far as Corkerhill Depot only. Good ride as it takes you past Shields and Corkerhill depots....

It seems daft that the Paisley Canal line isn't fully wired - self contained, half hourly, half of the line is already electrified, EMU depot on the route...

317 forever said:
Of incidental interest was that all the Whifflet line trains I saw were class 158s while the Shotts services tended to be class 156s, even for the faster services

The use of 158s on short distance stoppers like Whifflet winds me up (it'd get a Pacer/150 if it were further south).

IIRC the Shotts services are balanced so that a fast eastbound train works a slow westbound (and vice versa), so that the times balance up. That means that the 156s on fast trains would work back as slow services (annoying as the slow service would be okay with 156s whilst the fast one would be better with a 158).

rail-britain · 3 Oct 2011

tbtc said:
The use of 158s on short distance stoppers like Whifflet winds me up (it'd get a Pacer/150 if it were further south)

This is one of the ironies of cascade of rolling stock within the ScotRail franchise
I too have never understood why the Whifflet was passed over to Class 158, as it is more suited to Class 156
Equally the same applies to Cumbernauld - Motherwell, a Class 158 is completely wasted on this

Glasgow - Cumbernauld / Falkirk was operated by Class 170 units temporarily, those units are now operating on Glasgow - Alloa, which makes more sense
Glasgow - Cumbernauld is now operated by Class 156 units again, which doesn't make sense when the Cumbernauld - Motherwell is operated by Class 158 units

I still laugh at the reason given by ScotRail for the returning of the Class 150/2 units to RoSCO; not meeting DDA requirements
As far as I can tell no modification has been made to them since...

Blindtraveler · 3 Oct 2011

wel DDA or not I was glad to see the back of them, interiors a real mess! On the subject of DMUs i take it next franchise wil include a good refurb of the 170s? There getting a bit tired now
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
bB21 glad you enjoyed your bash!

jopsuk · 3 Oct 2011

Most of the central Scotland diesel services would be ideally run using standard-class only 170s- 158s aren't really ideal for the Alloa/Dunblane services.

rail-britain · 3 Oct 2011

Blindtraveler said:
i take it next franchise wil include a good refurb of the 170s? There getting a bit tired now

Very likely, however it might see some also returned to RoSCo as electrification takes place throughout the franchise

Chris125 · 3 Oct 2011

Any idea what reliability has been like for the 380's after their initial problems? I get the impression they've settled down very well...

Chris

87015 · 3 Oct 2011

Chris125 said:
Any idea what reliability has been like for the 380's after their initial problems? I get the impression they've settled down very well...

Latest performance figues I can see (Period 8) has them a shade over 7000 miles MTIN, rock bottom of class for the period.

marks87 · 3 Oct 2011

I had a throwback to the past on Saturday, when the 21.41 GLQ-ABD was operated by a single 158. This route is usually a 170, occasionally in combination with a 158 - but not normally a 158 on its own.

bb21 · 3 Oct 2011

SC318250 said:
By the end of November 50% of the Class 314 fleet should have been done, unless one of the other 3 that is to get the Saltire livery goes in ahead.

I had the luck to witness 314212 in its new dress.

tbtc said:
Did anyone else use Helensburgh Upper? Its often used in debates about passenger numbers, I think due to the way that "Helensburgh Stations" revenue is allocated between Upper and Central?

I think there were about 5/6 people who got off, and a few got on. I'll put some pictures up later when I get home.

Blindtraveler said:
bB21 glad you enjoyed your bash!

The biggest disappointment has got to be Mount Florida. Sounds so exotic.

Blindtraveler · 3 Oct 2011

if we had a like button id use it!

tbtc · 3 Oct 2011

bb21 said:
I think there were about 5/6 people who got off, and a few got on. I'll put some pictures up later when I get home

Cheers

bb21 said:
The biggest disappointment has got to be Mount Florida. Sounds so exotic.

Never go to Coatbridge Sunnyside in that case - you may be underwhelmed :lol:

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

rail-britain said:
Very likely, however it might see some also returned to RoSCo as electrification takes place throughout the franchise

I thought FSR would rather get rid of 158s than their modern three coach 170s?

(once EMUs in the Central Belt free some DMUs up)

bb21 · 3 Oct 2011

tbtc said:
Never go to Coatbridge Sunnyside in that case - you may be underwhelmed

In fact I did. I went past it on my way out from Edinburgh as I wanted to have a look at the newly-connected Bathgate line. I must say that many places along that line looked rather nice.

Mind you the weather must have helped. On the other hand, it was starting to get dark, and cold, and started raining, when I got to MFL.

rail-britain · 3 Oct 2011

tbtc said:
I thought FSR would rather get rid of 158s than their modern three coach 170s?

Very much so, but on some routes the Class 158 may have to be retained once the Class 156 have been disposed of (such as WHL, GSW, etc)
It is also possible that a next generation of the Class 170 may be utilised on the remaining Express routes, allowing capacity strengthening
However, even then there will be more rolling stock than services, so some will go

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