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Two questions about the 22:00 Euston-Manchester

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jha4ceb

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1. The 22:00 Euston to Manchester is set-down only at Tamworth, Lichfield, Stafford, Crewe, and Stockport, but not at Nuneaton. I don't understand the motivation for these restrictions -- why not allow this service to be an additional late-night service from Crewe/Stockport to Manchester, especially? Also, why the discrepancy with Nuneaton here -- why is it the only one of this group of stations which allows pick-up as well as set-down?

2. I've noticed on LDB that this service consistently runs late from Milton Keynes onwards. Last night it was around an hour late, but it often seems to be 10-15 minutes late at Nuneaton. Why would this be? Is the timetable "wrong" in some way, or have there just been consistent problems recently?
 
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dcmbarton

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I've been on this service twice - once last month, and once about this time last year - on both occasions it was on time at Lichfield TV. Also on both occasions, people boarded the train at both Tamworth and Lichfield TV - I wasn't aware it was set-down only.

David
 

Lampshade

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I think the idea with set down/pick up at Nuneaton is as long as there's a call in the TV, LM can call at the others with a connection at Nuneaton or Rugby.
 

sonic2009

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Lampshade:821412 said:
I think the idea with set down/pick up at Nuneaton is as long as there's a call in the TV, LM can call at the others with a connection at Nuneaton or Rugby.

The 2200 is the last train up the Trent valley!
 

RJ

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I think the idea with set down/pick up at Nuneaton is as long as there's a call in the TV, LM can call at the others with a connection at Nuneaton or Rugby.

The last down LM TV service leaves Euston at 18:29!
 

Johnny Lewis

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I suspect it is more about Virgin not having to provide (costly) replacement bus services running northwards FROM Tamworth and all points further north, in the event of the train not calling there, as, if the train is stopping to set down only, it can correctly be assumed that nobody will be waiting at these stations to board.

Nuneaton has platforms on all running lines, whereas Tamworth and Lichfield do not (so if the Slow Lines were blocked, the train would not be able to call). Other stations such as Stafford / Stoke / Crewe etc. might be bypassed by one of the several combinations of possible routes that the train could take to reach Manchester from Colwich Jn.
 

All Line Rover

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Another reason may be that the ticket offices are closed that late at night, and Virgin don't want the hassle of having the TM going up and down the train after each stop to sell/check tickets. The purpose of the [22:00] is to get people from London to Manchester (and intermediate stations) late at night - it's not a "local" service!
 

MidnightFlyer

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Another reason may be that the ticket offices are closed that late at night, and Virgin don't want the hassle of having the TM going up and down the train after each stop to sell/check tickets. The purpose of the [22:00] is to get people from London to Manchester (and intermediate stations) late at night - it's not a "local" service!

Lichfield Trent Valley's booking office is open to midnight...
 

Welshman

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I suspect it is more about Virgin not having to provide (costly) replacement bus services running northwards FROM Tamworth and all points further north, in the event of the train not calling there, as, if the train is stopping to set down only, it can correctly be assumed that nobody will be waiting at these stations to board.

Nuneaton has platforms on all running lines, whereas Tamworth and Lichfield do not (so if the Slow Lines were blocked, the train would not be able to call). Other stations such as Stafford / Stoke / Crewe etc. might be bypassed by one of the several combinations of possible routes that the train could take to reach Manchester from Colwich Jn.

But presumably they would still have to provide costly replacement services to get any alighting passengers there?

I suspect it could be to allow the train to leave early in the event of it running well. EC employs a similar tactic with their 2330 King's Cross-Leeds.
 
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causton

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But presumably they would still have to provide costly replacement services to get any alighting passengers there?

Not if there's nobody who wants to alight! If there's nobody on the train who says they're going to a station not called at - no replacement service needed at all. Whereas a taxi at least would have to go round the stations to check that nobody was waiting, I assume...
 

All Line Rover

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But presumably they would still have to provide costly replacement services to get any alighting passengers there?

I suspect it could be to allow the train to leave early in the event of it running well. EC employs a similar tactic with their 2330 King's Cross-Leeds.

I have to admit, that sounds like a very probable reason when all of the final few stops are set-down only. Someone on here will probably be able to check the train running records.

 

jha4ceb

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Thanks for the replies -- the points about running early and avoiding having to provide alternative transport make sense.

I see that again it's 7 down at Nuneaton tonight!


It doesn't run via Stockport, it's booked via Styal and Heald Green.

According to this timetable, it sets down at Stockport at 0026.
 

dvboy

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The last Wolverhampton-London Euston on a weeknight (2245) and Sunday (2237) is set down only at Northampton, Milton Keynes and Watford Junction.

The last Birmingham/Wolverhampton trains out of Euston used to always be set down only in the West Midlands, but on the current timetable only the 2325 from London Euston to Wolverhampton on Sundays is set down only at Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street.

Whenever I've been on either of these it's been up to half an hour early arriving at the destination, so I assume they are to allow for engineering works, and if they are early, they don't sit around waiting for the departure time.
 

All Line Rover

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Or maybe, just maybe, Virgin have made the train "set-down only" to prevent split ticketing at all of those lovely intermediate stations? ;)

(I doubt it, but it's a good conspiracy theory nonetheless! :D)
 

Pumbaa

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Mon - Thurs runs via Styal and Heald Green, Friday runs via Stockport.
 

thewolf

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The last Wolverhampton-London Euston on a weeknight (2245) and Sunday (2237) is set down only at Northampton, Milton Keynes and Watford Junction.

The last Birmingham/Wolverhampton trains out of Euston used to always be set down only in the West Midlands, but on the current timetable only the 2325 from London Euston to Wolverhampton on Sundays is set down only at Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street.

Whenever I've been on either of these it's been up to half an hour early arriving at the destination, so I assume they are to allow for engineering works, and if they are early, they don't sit around waiting for the departure time.

I caught the 2230 Euston - Birmingham (and Wolves) a few weeks ago, ended up sat at Milton Keynes for a good 15-20 minutes because of an early arrival (despite a 5 minute pause just outside Euston) - I assume it gets routed via the slow lines on occasions which would eat into that extra time?
 

Crossover

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I caught the 2230 Euston - Birmingham (and Wolves) a few weeks ago, ended up sat at Milton Keynes for a good 15-20 minutes because of an early arrival (despite a 5 minute pause just outside Euston) - I assume it gets routed via the slow lines on occasions which would eat into that extra time?

I used the 2200 service to Manchester two or three years back when it was booked an extra 15 mins or so to get to Manchester. Result...we sat at Rugby for a good 15 mins awaiting departure time.

They have since removed this but, to be honest, I don't think there is that much slack in the timings for this service
 
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Mon - Thurs runs via Styal and Heald Green, Friday runs via Stockport.

Actually it is booked WTT via Stockport but most weeks it is amended STP to run via Styal FSX although it is always via Stockport on a Friday. Don't get me going on running via Weedon vice Northampton on Sunday mornings:o:lol:
 

350401

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One Q I have about the 22.00 service is why is doesn't set down at Wilmslow? It goes through the station, and the current last direct service from Euston is 20.40. Would be very useful for people who like a couple of after-work drinks after a day working down in London.
 

Nym

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Because to stop that late at night in Wilmslow the train would need a pillar on the side of each door and an onyx door control?

Or in the world of sense, maybe to allow for diversions?
 

richw

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if there is no passengers to get off would the train be able to not call at a specific station, so if the TM has been round seen nobody getting off at the set down only stop, could the service not stop?
 

Lampshade

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One Q I have about the 22.00 service is why is doesn't set down at Wilmslow? It goes through the station, and the current last direct service from Euston is 20.40. Would be very useful for people who like a couple of after-work drinks after a day working down in London.

If it's running via Heald Green the up/down Styal platforms at Wilmslow aren't long enough.
 
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