Level Crossing Timer

frequent flyer · 7 Nov 2011

In some European cities I have visited traffic lights have count down timers that tell drivers how long they have to wait until the lights turn from red to green. Do you think a similar thing could be used at level crossing barriers so drivers would know how long they have to wait until the barriers lift? I'm guessing it might stop a few impatient people trying their luck.

RailUK Forums

ainsworth74 · 7 Nov 2011

I think it would do the exact opposite, if a driver pulls up to a level crossing and sees that there is a minute or even just 20 seconds or so until the barriers go up then I think that would encourage them to cross.

silvermachine · 7 Nov 2011

another reason why this would be a dangerous thing to implement is that a timer could only give you the time before a single train has cleared the crossing.

If a second train in the other direction strikes in before the first train has cleared then the timer would be counting down to zero while a train was still approaching or, more likely, would reset to a new value probably annoying those who are waiting, who might then be more likely to make a risky effort to cross.

and thats only with 2 lines, never mind 3 or 4.

90019 · 7 Nov 2011

On top of the safety aspects, it also can't take into account different speeds and acceleration/decelertion of trains approacing, meaning the predicted time would keep changing.
The pededstrian crossong ones work because they're on a set sequence, and the time is predetermined, the times a level crossing would be down for fluctuates too much for it to be effective.

142094 · 7 Nov 2011

ainsworth74 said:
I think it would do the exact opposite, if a driver pulls up to a level crossing and sees that there is a minute or even just 20 seconds or so until the barriers go up then I think that would encourage them to cross.

That is a good point, but of course depends on the temprament of the driver.

Best thing to do is have a a deterrent (full width barrier) and a punishment (CCTV with ANPR or similar) to reduce the numbers who'd either chance it or would consider driving round the barrier on a half-barriered crossing.

Bald Rick · 7 Nov 2011

Best thing is to have no crossing at all!

142094 · 7 Nov 2011

Bald Rick said:
Best thing is to have no crossing at all!

Most probably (unless something like what happened at Great Heck was repeated) - however much easier and cheaper to but in two extra barriers and CCTV compared to the cost of a bridge etc.

NSEFAN · 7 Nov 2011

Bald Rick said:
Best thing is to have no crossing at all!

Exactly. My understanding is that network rail will do all they can to axe crossings during major engineering works.

Bald Rick · 7 Nov 2011

142094 said:
Most probably (unless something like what happened at Great Heck was repeated) - however much easier and cheaper to but in two extra barriers and CCTV compared to the cost of a bridge etc.

Easier, yes. Cheaper - no in most cases, not when whole life costs taken into account. Full barrier crossings are cmpletely different behind the scenes so to speak and upgradign an AHB to full barrier CCTV costs well over £1m.

jopsuk · 7 Nov 2011

Can I use this space for another moan about Granham Road crossing, south of Cambridge/just north of of Shelford railway station? Sits just south of the junction between the Kings Cross and Liverpool Street routes. Often I've sat for over five minutes with nary a sign of a train. This evening was one of the special occasions where I got to watch a southbound train take the line towards Shepreth- meaning that despite there being no clear route through the crossing, the barriers were down. Joy.

142094 · 7 Nov 2011

Bald Rick said:
Easier, yes. Cheaper - no in most cases, not when whole life costs taken into account. Full barrier crossings are cmpletely different behind the scenes so to speak and upgradign an AHB to full barrier CCTV costs well over £1m.

I'd be very suprised if installing barriers is more expensive than hard engineering such as bridge or flyover, even if looking at the whole life costs.

Bald Rick · 7 Nov 2011

142094 said:
I'd be very suprised if installing barriers is more expensive than hard engineering such as bridge or flyover, even if looking at the whole life costs.

Be surprised then ! The £worth of time savings for motorists can be substantial.

The only reason it isn't happening is that there is no money.

frequent flyer · 7 Nov 2011

Getting rid of the crossing all together is the best solution by far for everyone, I have to agree. I guess there are huge variables at a crossing that would make the countdown unreliable, but unfortunitely there are a few impatient drivers on the road and perhaps letting them know they've got either 30 seconds of 5 minutes to wait might stop their blood pressure rising, seeing red and driving round the barrier. When a train is delayed its far less stressful when you know by how much than when no time is given.

142094 · 7 Nov 2011

Bald Rick said:
Be surprised then ! The £worth of time savings for motorists can be substantial.

The only reason it isn't happening is that there is no money.

Take that out of the equation then you'll find the opposite I bet. Even the small benefit to road users in this case would be greatly outweighed by the cost of congestion not caused by level crossings (which has been put at about £20bn per annum by the CBI).

Level Crossing Timer

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