I don't dispute that at all, but as guards are forever reminding us, part of their role is to ensure safe operation, which does include a duty of care. If someone is too close to the train or touching it, the right thing to do would be to move the person before trying to move the train. As I said though, the incident was recorded on CCTV, so it shouldn't be too hard to work out what actually did happen.
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Merseyrail James St Fatality - Guard Questioned!!!???
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The Liverpool bound platform at James street is perfectly straight, IF she was leaning against the train, he would have seen her, even if it was busy.
Merseyrail Guards always stay at the local panel when the train is leaving the station, up until relatively recently it was perfectly normal to see trains leaving with the guards door open (and the guard leaning out), until the train reached the tunnel mouth.
At most Underground stations its possible to see along the platform, at least until the train is moving, as there are CCTV screens located at strategic points for dispatch.
I'm interested as to why remaining at the local panel was removed from the rule book, it does seem common sense to stay there.
I know when I'm on the F&WHR I usually leave the door open* till the guards door has cleared the platform, and then I don't close the window until the whole train is clear. Its not as if remaining there detracts from your other duties?
*obviously if its a passenger door I just open the window
Merseyrail Guards always stay at the local panel when the train is leaving the station, up until relatively recently it was perfectly normal to see trains leaving with the guards door open (and the guard leaning out), until the train reached the tunnel mouth.
At most Underground stations its possible to see along the platform, at least until the train is moving, as there are CCTV screens located at strategic points for dispatch.
I'm interested as to why remaining at the local panel was removed from the rule book, it does seem common sense to stay there.
I know when I'm on the F&WHR I usually leave the door open* till the guards door has cleared the platform, and then I don't close the window until the whole train is clear. Its not as if remaining there detracts from your other duties?
*obviously if its a passenger door I just open the window
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ANorthernGuard
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Yes of course we are forever reminding people! if people actually engaged brain and used common sense a bit more we wouldn't have to! as no one knows the facts speculation is pointless and lets just wait to see what happnes, if he has done nothing wrong then he will be safe, if he hasn't been professional in his duties then he deserves his fate, let the facts prove it one way or the other and not trial by forum.
Greeny
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BestWestern
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...:roll::roll::roll: Is it only me who feels a very strong urge to e-mail this wally and politely advise of him of what a complete load of crap his 'reporting' is?!
How in the hell does 'closing the automatic doors too early' play any direct part in this person falling between the train and the platform?! As if to suggest that the act of closing doors somehow caused the individual concerned to spontaneously fall onto the rails.
Of course Merseyrail Guards have a duty of care to their passengers as 'part of the remit of their job', or what would be the bloody point of them being there? Of course, to most intelligent individuals that would be such a blatantly obvious point that it wouldn't warrant a mention, but what we'll do is put it in the paper to pad out this pathetic 'news piece' and point it out to every scroat so that they can arse about when boarding or alighting and think it amusing to test their Guard's 'duty of care'. I see the 'remit' of the local Birkenhead dustbin-liner is to print an abundance of hopelessly amateurish tosh, just the same as most other local rags.
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HSTEd
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Perhaps the buzzer that the guard uses to contact the driver and tell him the train is ready should be audible on the platform.
I think the doors being closed is sufficient enough for any passenger with a bit of common sense to stand back. Doors closing = move away!
There's already an audible hustle alarm!
2 is just one of many different bell codes, some of which the public definitely shouldn't hear. 9 is for police assistance for example. Most are barely used in my limited experience so far.
Xenophon PCDGS
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As usual, you have made a most excellent summation, based upon your knowledge gained from being a member of a train crew. Your comment about "trial by forum" is a valid one and we should not lower ourselves to the level of the gutter-press tabloids in passing judgement until all the actual facts of this particular matter are put into the public domain.
callum112233
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I'm sorry but i'm fed up of hearing about this Georgia Varley. Yes it's sad but it's not the first and it won't be the last accident on a platform in the UK. I can't help but notice that an extra fuss is being made just because it was a young girl that was killed. If it was a middle aged man, noone would be as interested.
AlterEgo
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The difference here is that there may, or may not be, evidence to suggest that the guard was directly responsible for her death. Either by closing the doors early or giving a signal for the train to depart when a passenger was actually leaning against the doors (however stupid that may be).
While there may be a case of Missing White Woman Syndrome here, I doubt that if you were Georgia's parents you'd want to see the matter quietly dropped.
175001
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Well said fellow Guard.
Matt Taylor
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The issue of remaining at the guards operating panel until the train has cleared the platform being removed from the rule book is perhaps because a lot of modern stock has no facility for the guard to lean out and make a check while the train moves off.
You'd be surprised how many people assume a guard is just a glorified ticket seller, ask a few random people on trains what the guard does related to safety and you'll probably get blank looks.
ANorthernGuard
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I'd give them a copy of the rule book a map of the routes tell them to memorise them and come back to me on 3 months and only then send them to retail training, they would soon change their mind!
Matt Taylor
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Then tell them that we will test them on their knowledge in two years time and see what they say!
ANorthernGuard
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Roylang
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ANorthernGuard
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I have got to admit to absolutely hating "heres the Ticket Man" during the day but its still better than (from the odd Junkie and p**head after 7pm) "f**k off I ain't got a Ticket and there is nothing you can do about it D**khead) or words to that effect.
However they soon change there tune like a few weeks ago I had a ghastly Junkie on my train, complete and utter scum (sorry but he was) getting all cocky and foul mouthed until 4 Coppers on there way to a night out stood next to them with there badges/Warrant cards out in front of him asking me what they wanted me to do, told him off at the next stop, unsurprisingly he left without a whimper (and control sent out a message to all the guards in the area warning them about him lol)
Payback
However they soon change there tune like a few weeks ago I had a ghastly Junkie on my train, complete and utter scum (sorry but he was) getting all cocky and foul mouthed until 4 Coppers on there way to a night out stood next to them with there badges/Warrant cards out in front of him asking me what they wanted me to do, told him off at the next stop, unsurprisingly he left without a whimper (and control sent out a message to all the guards in the area warning them about him lol)
Payback
Roylang
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However they soon change there tune like a few weeks ago I had a ghastly Junkie on my train, complete and utter scum (sorry but he was) getting all cocky and foul mouthed until 4 Coppers on there way to a night out stood next to them with there badges/Warrant cards out in front of him asking me what they wanted me to do, told him off at the next stop, unsurprisingly he left without a whimper (and control sent out a message to all the guards in the area warning them about him lol)
Payback
Why wait for the next stop? A bounce along the ballast at 30mph would probably have solved the problem on a more permanent basis
Roy
BestWestern
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Any update on this story?
Intermodal
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RAIB is investigating it seems. From their press release it seems to be that they are placing the scrutiny on Merseyrail's dispatch proceedures.
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/111022_liverpool_james_st.cfm said:
BestWestern
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The trains guard signalled the driver to stop immediately he saw the young person fall from the platform, which was soon after he had instructed the train driver to set off for the next station. The driver applied the emergency brake which brought the train to a stop from around 10 mph (16km/h).RAIB.
That's interesting then, some of the earlier comment suggested that Guard had no idea about it I thought? We received a paper hand-out briefing at our shack today, advising us of the risks of people's behaviour on the platforms and suchlike. It's been angled to imply that it covers the increased danger from lots of Christmas p1ssheads, but no doubt it's been triggered by the Merseyrail incident.
That's interesting then, some of the earlier comment suggested that Guard had no idea about it I thought? We received a paper hand-out briefing at our shack today, advising us of the risks of people's behaviour on the platforms and suchlike. It's been angled to imply that it covers the increased danger from lots of Christmas p1ssheads, but no doubt it's been triggered by the Merseyrail incident.
First class
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Guard formally charged with manslaughter by gross negligence by BTP. To appear in court later this month.
If guilty, a custodial sentence is probable.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...eath-at-james-street-station-100252-30261323/
If guilty, a custodial sentence is probable.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...eath-at-james-street-station-100252-30261323/
Greeny
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According to North West Tonight, the Guard has been charged with Manslaughter today.
G
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AlterEgo
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This is terribly sad for everyone concerned. I wonder how he'll plead.
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If he is found guilty I suspect there will be a major review of the Railway Group Standards.
In Longbottom, R v (1849) pre-SCJA 1873 it was defined that contributory negligence (i.e. the young girls actions/drunkenness etc) is not a defence.
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ANorthernGuard
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from what I have heard from a few people higher up in the Chain of command, the guard failed to do the correct door procedure for at least 10 stops previously(I have no proof of this but it does make a lot of sense now)
Thats why Northern have become really stringent with door procedures since(same company at the end of the day)
Thats why Northern have become really stringent with door procedures since(same company at the end of the day)
185
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-16875454
Utter stupidity from BT Police? A drunken young passenger has fallen down the gap, after the doors were safely shut - I reckon BTP are desperately trying to appease the family of the deceased and the local papers by going down this crazy road. Merseyrail / NR ought to be the ones in the dock here if anyone as the method of working can't be right if the guard is supposed to have a clear view of a platform from a closed cab door. Is the glass magic?! Can you stick your head through it?! :roll:
Utter stupidity from BT Police? A drunken young passenger has fallen down the gap, after the doors were safely shut - I reckon BTP are desperately trying to appease the family of the deceased and the local papers by going down this crazy road. Merseyrail / NR ought to be the ones in the dock here if anyone as the method of working can't be right if the guard is supposed to have a clear view of a platform from a closed cab door. Is the glass magic?! Can you stick your head through it?! :roll:
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