kyrano
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http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....to_hull_line_disrupts_rail_services_1_4066385
Yorkshire Evening Post said:
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train on fire this morning
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Schnellzug
Established Member
Whatever is a back-up engine in the diesel unit? They carry emergency engines with them now? This is commendable forward thinking by TPE (I presume). And if it was an eastbound train, how come there were holidaymakers heading for Ringways airport at Manchester? hadn't they got on the wrong train, then?
Tim R-T-C
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Ringways Airport...?
Were they going to catch a TWA flight to Idlewild Airport?
Were they going to catch a TWA flight to Idlewild Airport?
Nym
Established Member
They wouldn't be on TWA to Idlewild from Ringway (It was never called Ringways, thats the plans for London's circular motorways!), if anyone it would have been BOAC or PanAm.
I'd be worried if I was heading in the wrong direction for EGCC, on a train length that NEVER runs there with TPE via Neville Hill (They only run Hull Diagrams IIRC and they all terminate at Piccadilly or run to Lime St, and the latter are formed of 185s)
Although the chances are that reporters can't count, and don't know East from West and are just trying to add drama by idiocy as usual
PS: Ringway is the village that was next to the Aerodrome, hence not being Ringways, although you could say Ringway's Airport, just as now, it's Wythenshawe's Airport.
I'd be worried if I was heading in the wrong direction for EGCC, on a train length that NEVER runs there with TPE via Neville Hill (They only run Hull Diagrams IIRC and they all terminate at Piccadilly or run to Lime St, and the latter are formed of 185s)
Although the chances are that reporters can't count, and don't know East from West and are just trying to add drama by idiocy as usual
PS: Ringway is the village that was next to the Aerodrome, hence not being Ringways, although you could say Ringway's Airport, just as now, it's Wythenshawe's Airport.
driver9000
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I assume they are quoting someone with little knowledge of how a DMU works.
After an engine fire on a DMU the affected engine can isolated and the train driven normally on the remaining engines once the fire bell has been stopped. There are no back up engines other than those under the other vehicles.
Isn't the official name of Manchester Airport still Ringway despite it not being called as such publicly?
After an engine fire on a DMU the affected engine can isolated and the train driven normally on the remaining engines once the fire bell has been stopped. There are no back up engines other than those under the other vehicles.
Isn't the official name of Manchester Airport still Ringway despite it not being called as such publicly?
Nym
Established Member
No...
NATS AIS and International AIS Lists Manchester's Aerodromes as:
NATS AIS and International AIS Lists Manchester's Aerodromes as:
amcluesent
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No 'big man' this time to 'telt' them!!
Where does it say which direction it was heading? And why TPE? My reading was that it was a pair of Northern 2 car units heading ewest and unless I've missed something, this fits the facts presented and is not contradicted?
Nym
Established Member
Because no other operating route runs between anywhere East of Stalybridge and Manchester Airport? Just a guess...
Nym
Established Member
We guessed that much, doesn't mean we can't be critical of that site now does it? You could have also wrapped it in quote tags if you wanted to completely dissociate yourself from it...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ooooo... touchey..
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Nym
Established Member
Stalybridge is West of Leeds yes, and it's a point where if you drew a line N/S that NO services would operate to MIA other than TPE!
I could have equally said, no services East of Nevvile Hill to MIA are operated by anyone other than TPE, or that nothing E of Wakefeild...(!)
I could have equally said, no services East of Nevvile Hill to MIA are operated by anyone other than TPE, or that nothing E of Wakefeild...(!)
Nym
Established Member
OK, take this from another direction, the only service timetabled to be ITR of Garforth between 5:30 and 6:10am is the 05:26 YRK - MIA. Hence, TPE, it would need to be an insanely late service to be NT operated, the first NT service in that area is the 0540 YRK - LDS (NT) that isn't at East Garforth unitl 0603, 13 mins after the fire bigade have been called.
PS: It wouldn't have come from Selby, as the first service that way is the 0600 off Hull Paragon...
PS: It wouldn't have come from Selby, as the first service that way is the 0600 off Hull Paragon...
87015
Established Member
Jesus, whats with the obsessive picking apart of the media stuff every time something is mentioned, do you really think every time the railway is mentioned they need to get an industry 'expert' to check every detail which most people couldn't care about?
Appears to have been one of those 'best DMUs ever' 185s working the 0526 York - Man Apt if you actually want to discuss the mishap...
Appears to have been one of those 'best DMUs ever' 185s working the 0526 York - Man Apt if you actually want to discuss the mishap...
Nym
Established Member
If it's a four car unit I'd love to see how that could happen...
If the media is accurate that it is Four Car, then the chances are it's a Built In Britain Class 170 thats subbing for a 185 on an early diagram.
87015
Established Member
Its not, it was a 185. Hardly worth getting your knickers in such a twist about though.
kyrano
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1P07 terminated Garforth after fire bottles discharged as they should. ECS to Marsh Lane to confirm no further issues thence ECS to Ardwick.
Passengers forward on 1P09 which was 29 late.
Most other trains affected by around 10-15 minutes each for an hour of so
185107 my lordzzzzzz
Oh and a 185 is a 3 car..... Still why spoil a sensationalist story??
Passengers forward on 1P09 which was 29 late.
Most other trains affected by around 10-15 minutes each for an hour of so
185107 my lordzzzzzz
Oh and a 185 is a 3 car..... Still why spoil a sensationalist story??
Nym
Established Member
I know, I just have a low stupidity tolerance.
Coming back to the actual topic, the 2d from me would be, "Stuff breaks, get over it!"
Is the first fire I've heard of on a QSK19F unit in a while, although there was a problem with an N14 unit a couple of months back, the two power units don't have many common parts outside of engine managment systems, so asside from maintenance crews being told to push the boundries on serviceable parts, I can't see any links. Sounds like it is some kind serviceable part failiure anyway, they mentioned a lot of smoke, so it sounds like a long hydrocarbon fire.
Old Timer
Established Member
Construction of Manchester (Ringway) airport started in 1935 after it was decided that the planned Manchester airport at Barton was too boggy to accommodate the then new DC2/DC3s.
Ringway was opened in 1937 and used by Fairey Aviation. It was known as Manchester (Ringway) airport.
During the War part of the airport became RAF Ringway, and supported Transport Command and the Special Operations Executive. The first Lancaster (known originally as the Avro Manchester) was assembled and flew from there, and during the War all the Lancasters constructed at Woodford, Barton and other locations were finally assembled for transport by air to their operational stations at the Avro sheds in the NW corner of the station.
In March 1957 the RAF section was transferred from RAF to civillian status.
From 1975 until 1986 it was known as Manchester International Airport. It is now known simply as Manchester Airport.
Fair enough.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes
Although being able to count to 4 hardly requires an industry expert.
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Pedant Point: The Manchester was not an early name for the Lancaster. The Lancaster was modification of the Manchester design. The Manchester had two RR Vulture engines. The Vulture suffered from extremely poor reliability so a version with four RR Merlins and an extended wing was produced. The initial prototype was originally referred to as the Manchester Mk III but it only flew once under that name and further modifications were made, such as the removal of one of the three tail fins, prior to any further prototypes being produced.
To show you how bad the Vulture was... 193 Manchesters were built, 78 were lost, 45 of those losses were non-operational and 30 of the non-operational losses were due to engine failure. So 2/3 of the non-operational losses and (at least - no stats on losses due to engine failures on ops) 3/8 of the total losses were due to engine failure.
Nym
Established Member
Ta, couldn't be bothered finding that detail...
And I was refering to the pluralisation ringways, that is London's Circular Motorways, it was called Ringway Airport that I'm not denying.
Schnellzug
Established Member
"The fire broke out in the engine compartment of an east-bound four-carriage diesel train a few hundred yards from Garforth station"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
because the journalist obviously didn't know what they were talking about, and got simple facts wrong such as east-bound trains going to Ringways airport in Manchester. This does not fill one with confidence in their accuracy in other respects.
Old Timer
Established Member
I was aware but did not feel most people on a railway site would be that interested in that level of detail.
For your information, a very quick search of my database shows two Manchester losses on Ops due to engine failure as follows :
L7395 To 61 Sqdn 13Feb42. MFO Cologne 13/14Feb42. Wreckage sdelivered to 1MPRU (Metal Produce & Recovery Unit) Cowley 20Mar42. had completed one previous operation. Date/Target not recorded. No record of total hours. Airborne 1950 13Mar42 from Woolfox Lodge. Aircraft abandoned over the Wash on return due engine failure. Crashed 2 miles S of Wittering, Northants.No injuries.
L7303 To No.207 Sqdn 11Feb41. MFO Dusseldorf 27/28Mar41.Had previously completed two operations. Had a total of 27 hours when lost. Airborne 1940 27Mar41 from Waddington. Encountered Flak and engine failure. Abandoned and crashed between Roessel and Bakel (Noord Brabant), 6 km NE of Helmond, Holland.
IIRC, it first flew in mid-1939. It is an interesting insight on how the authorities thought the coming conflict would be fought, as they did not really have plans for "Heavy" bombers, just replacements for Wellingtons.
I am also interested in teh 1957 transfer to civilain status at Ringway - it was about that time my father left the Air Traffic Control there and moved to Preston (Barton Hall)
tbtc
Veteran Member
Can we establish whether this dodgy report was in the BBC or not, before certain people get excited?
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