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Been a bit silly....

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dcmbarton

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This morning I got two lots of tickets out of the machine at Lichfield TV - one lot a return to Birmingham today, and the other lot to go to London in just over two weeks. Put them all in the ticket wallet, in what I thought was the right order, and didn't think anything of it...

Just after the train left Lichfield City, chap came round to check tickets - handed mine over and waved the DSB railcard, he circled the date, and I put it away. At New Street, I got the same ticket out to show, then put it away again. On the way back through New Street, I got out another ticket to show, then put it away again. No more checks.

When I got home, I realised that I had been a total twit and had been showing the tickets for London today, all dated the 9th January. Guess it shows how much they really look... Only slight problem is I now have an advance single for travel to London on the 9th January where the date has been circled! Do you think it would be a good idea to get in contact with London Midland and explain this before travelling?

David
 
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AlterEgo

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Do you think it would be a good idea to get in contact with London Midland and explain this before travelling?

Well it's an advance ticket, so it can't possibly have been used before 9th January. I'd be inclined to give them a ring and just explain and see what their advice is.
 

bnm

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The circling of the date (I assume in biro) will not invalidate the ticket. At least it wasn't Zifa'd or punched.

Should be no problem using the the AP ticket on the relevant date. Just ensure you have your reservation coupon.
 

ainsworth74

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As the others have said it should be fine as it can only be used on the one train anyway. But just for piece of mind I would suggest contacting LM and getting their advice.
 

ng1980

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The circling of the date (I assume in biro) will not invalidate the ticket. At least it wasn't Zifa'd or punched.

Should be no problem using the the AP ticket on the relevant date.

My thoughts exactly! A circle in biro does not invalidate the ticket nor show that it has already been used.
 

Old Timer

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This morning I got two lots of tickets out of the machine at Lichfield TV - one lot a return to Birmingham today, and the other lot to go to London in just over two weeks. Put them all in the ticket wallet, in what I thought was the right order, and didn't think anything of it...

Just after the train left Lichfield City, chap came round to check tickets - handed mine over and waved the DSB railcard, he circled the date, and I put it away. At New Street, I got the same ticket out to show, then put it away again. On the way back through New Street, I got out another ticket to show, then put it away again. No more checks.

When I got home, I realised that I had been a total twit and had been showing the tickets for London today, all dated the 9th January. Guess it shows how much they really look... Only slight problem is I now have an advance single for travel to London on the 9th January where the date has been circled! Do you think it would be a good idea to get in contact with London Midland and explain this before travelling? David
Really ? Lichfield to London Tickets are available via Birmingham New St (and are cheaper) so why should the Guard query ?
 

Old Timer

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Because the tickets are dated for 9th January?
With the 9th being there I imagine the Guard did a glance and saw the 9th but read it as 29th. These things do happen especially when scan reading which most Guards do. It is a common theme in human behaviour to see what you expect to see. I have experienced it by seeing a green indication at a signal which almost always displayed a green aspect during a quick glance. On this occcasion it was red, which was realised very quickly but shows how the human brain works.

If Guards examined tickets to the full level of detail it would take time and people get agitated, so the Guard will normally scan for quick things such as a date, and as a Lichfield is available via Birmingham the rest as they say is history.

That is partly the reason why it remains the responsibility fo the passenger to ensure they present the correct ticket for their journey.
 

Yew

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It could be some staff at ther place where it was collected explaining it was only valid on that specific date :)
 

dcmbarton

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That is partly the reason why it remains the responsibility fo the passenger to ensure they present the correct ticket for their journey.
Thank you for your constructive comments :roll: I can put part of the blame on my eyesight - finding the right details on these miniscule pieces of paper is not easy if you have sight problems (hence the DSB railcard!). I shall make sure I'm more careful in the future (thought that might delay the guard and agitate other passengers...:roll:)
 

Old Timer

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Thank you for your constructive comments :roll: I can put part of the blame on my eyesight - finding the right details on these miniscule pieces of paper is not easy if you have sight problems (hence the DSB railcard!). I shall make sure I'm more careful in the future (thought that might delay the guard and agitate other passengers...:roll:)
I gave a perfectly reasonable and inoffensive response as to why the date may have been missed by the Guards, but if you feel the need to blame others, which was the principle point being made in your post, then fine. :)
 

dcmbarton

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I gave a perfectly reasonable and inoffensive response as to why the date may have been missed by the Guards, but if you feel the need to blame others, which was the principle point being made in your post, then fine. :)
Actually, that wasn't the point of my original post - the point was to seek opinions on whether it was something I should contact LM about before travelling again on the 9th. I know it's against the grain these days, but I don't blame anyone - it was as much my mistake for handing over the wrong ticket as it was the guard's for checking it off.
 

Old Timer

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Actually, that wasn't the point of my original post - the point was to seek opinions on whether it was something I should contact LM about before travelling again on the 9th. I know it's against the grain these days, but I don't blame anyone - it was as much my mistake for handing over the wrong ticket as it was the guard's for checking it off.
Personally I would hope that LM would adopt a common sense approach, however the more I read in these forums the more it appears to me that the customer services that we gave under BR are not those which apply now.

Anyway I wish you well in your endeavour.
 

dcmbarton

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Well, I contacted LM just to check - the response was "well there could potentially be an issue as it looks like you've already used the ticket". There advice was to take all relevant documentation with me on the 9th and "try and explain it clearly to the guard"...
 

Minilad

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Well, I contacted LM just to check - the response was "well there could potentially be an issue as it looks like you've already used the ticket". There advice was to take all relevant documentation with me on the 9th and "try and explain it clearly to the guard"...

So LMs response is basically "you could have problems, but try and wing it when the guard comes round"
Very professional
 

GarethW

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Well I may be missing something very obvious - but how can someone think you've already used an Advance if your sitting on the train the advance is for??
 

Nick W

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Well, I contacted LM just to check - the response was "well there could potentially be an issue as it looks like you've already used the ticket". There advice was to take all relevant documentation with me on the 9th and "try and explain it clearly to the guard"...

Sorry to hear they've given you such poor service.

Why not try taking the tickets to a ticket office or customer service booth/office? They might be able to write something on the ticket which says checked in error.

If it does come to speaking to the guard, it'll be a good idea to speak to guard before you get on the train (he should be on the platform or either end of the train), so it doesn't look like reuse. Though unless the guard happens to do the same sort of marking on a ticket (making it look like someone else on the same train has used it), I can't see why it could be considered re-use.
 

yorkie

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NickW - anyone can write that, but I really don't see any need!
 

Nick W

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NickW - anyone can write that, but I really don't see any need!

The majority of forum members and the well accustomed traveler will know, but a new forum member and apparently a worker in LM's "customer service" might not realise the power of seeing the guard before travel.

By seeing the guard before travel I've been able to:
1. Travel on the wrong day on a ticket twice, once being on an AP ticket
2. Make a detour via an unpermitted route by about 60 miles.
3. Get someone permission to travel without a YP railcard (left at home)
4. Travel on an earlier service when trains have been disrupted
 

sheff1

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Well I may be missing something very obvious - but how can someone think you've already used an Advance if your sitting on the train the advance is for??

Don't underestimate the obtuseness you may encounter :(
 

clagmonster

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The only condition that vaguely covers this is 23:
"23. If a ticket is damaged or altered
If a ticket has been damaged or has been tampered with or altered in any way, it is not
valid for travel. However, if you return it to the Train Company or travel agent which sold
it to you, they will arrange for a replacement ticket to be issued unless it has reason to
suspect that the ticket has, or will be, used for fraudulent or improper purposes. You may
have to pay a reasonable administrative charge (not exceeding £10) for the replacement."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Therefore, I would get in touch with whichever company sold you the ticket, and ask for a replacement ticket in line with condition 23 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, unless of course it would cost less than £10.00 to get a new ticket. The only problem with this solution that I can think is that technically you did not produce when requested a valid ticket for your Lichfield-Birmingham journey, so I suppose in theory you could be persued for that.
 

AlterEgo

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London Midland should rescind the ticket by asking the OP to hand it in at a ticket office, where they can collect a written authority to travel in exchange.

Well, that's what seems sensible and workable anyway.

Unfortunately this incredibly simple solution seems to have been stillborn owing to it drowning in red tape.
 

dcmbarton

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I had a look at buying another one - whilst the original only cost £6.95, a new one would cost £53 as there are no advance singles left!

I think I'll just have to take a chance on it - there isn't a lot else I can do. I can try taking it into the ticket office next week and seeing what they'll do, but like the customer relations, it's entirely dependent who's there as to what they'll do.
 

island

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Drowning in red tape is right :(

I recommend just seeing the guard before travel, so there is no question of suspicion that the ticket might have been used twice.
 

BestWestern

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As a Guard myself, I would agree with the simple advice to try and locate the Guard on your service, either prior to boarding or once you are under way if practical. With the very greatest of respect, I always use plenty of discretion with travellers who have a disability of any kind, and your sight issues in particular make it perfectly reasonable that you may have inadvertently produced the wrong ticket on a previous journey. As it is an Advance ticket then it would not have been valid for any earlier journey, which would validate your explanation that it was not properly examined when presented last time around. Perhaps you could also bring with you the ticket that you did purchase for the previous journey?

I would take a slightly dim view of any colleague of mine who felt the need to unduly hassle somebody in your position, and I would hope that the Guard you encounter will be similarly minded. Best of luck!
 

34D

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I'd agree with the advice that the marking could have been the booking office or barrier staff, and wouldn't worry any further.

Certainly, try the ticket office, but don't get concerned if they say you'll be fine - and enjoy your journey to London.
 

Ticket Man

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Do not worry yourself about it.
The majority of staff will know automatically that the ticket could not have been valid for any other journey that the one stated.
If you have any concerns pop to a ticket office to see if they can they can help but I come across this scenario at least two or three times a week and certainly do not think to stop the passenger.
As has been said, this is an extremely simple problem that requires little or no intervention to resolve.
 

Brucey

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I've had booking office staff do all sorts of things to tickets in the past. Once even wrote a huge 'R' next to the status code on every ticket (I'd bought a GS4 return, so she did it on eight coupons). When I asked why, I was told that it is apparently confirming I'd understood the GS4 restrictions.

Others have circled dates, times, destinations and even stapled random coupons together.

Also, your ticket could have been checked by another member of staff somewhere else on your journey (e.g. if you were splitting and presented both tickets together).
 
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