Most Dangerous Railway line in the UK

mralexn · 24 Jan 2012

So basically i was wondering what do you think is the most dangerous railway line in the uk, as far as violence and people causing trouble / throwing things at trains, assaulting staff that kind of stuff.
I remember reading a while back somewhere there is a route near london called "brick alley" and its named that because drivers always get bricks thrown at their windows etc.
but yeah, what are your thoughts ?

RailUK Forums

rmt-driver · 24 Jan 2012

Through Dagenham has historically always been bad on the LTS and LUL 4 track area. Since they put wire cages over all the footbridges I think it has improved though.

-HarleyD- · 24 Jan 2012

mralexn said:
I remember reading a while back somewhere there is a route near london called "brick alley" and its named that because drivers always get bricks thrown at their windows etc.
but yeah, what are your thoughts ?

Sounds like the approach to Feltham on the up line. The track passes alongside an estate and I have been working many trains in the past along that stretch and had windows pop in the carriage I was working as the little darlings living there pelt the trains with stones.

From a staff assault/antisocial behavior point of view. The Hounslow loop and the line between Virginia Water and Weybridge (specifically Chertsy and Addlestone) and also Ascot to Aldershot (Sp. Camberly and Frimley) used to be particularly bad to the point that after 19:00 the guards would not walk through the trains and RP staff would only work them mob handed. I dont know if these have improved in the years since I left the railway, Chances are that they have become worse tbh.

PFX · 24 Jan 2012

If you consider it as part of the UK, I'd say the section of the Belfast to Dublin line around Lurgan is up there. Bomb alerts close the line now and again and it was stopped by a mob who tried to hijack it last year.

ChristopherJ · 24 Jan 2012

mralexn said:
I remember reading a while back somewhere there is a route near london called "brick alley" and its named that because drivers always get bricks thrown at their windows etc.

That's Plaistow - Upton Park - East Ham, this area of London is a real ****hole - a dirty, grey, slum suburb.

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/news.htm

Beating the Vandals - The east end of the District Line has always been bad for vandalism, particularly during the summer holidays. Many is the time Tubeprune has had to duck as a brick or a milk crate came flying towards the cab window. It was so bad, they used to call the bit between Plaistow and East ham, "Bomb Alley".

Ivo · 24 Jan 2012

The lines mentioned so far aren't that bad. The Plaistow route is awkward but I've never known any trouble in probably 100 uses of that stretch. And the line through Feltham is absolutely fine (well, apart from when that bridge collapsed anyway :lol:

).

Of those I've been on, I really couldn't choose a "most dangerous line".

PFX said:
If you consider it as part of the UK, I'd say the section of the Belfast to Dublin line around Lurgan is up there. Bomb alerts close the line now and again and it was stopped by a mob who tried to hijack it last year.

Yes. And don't I know it!

Thank you for giving me a BUS from Newry to Belfast!!!!!

W-on-Sea · 24 Jan 2012

No question that Lurgan/Portadown is part of the UK. At least the railway line doesn't go through Craigavon, which is worse still...

I must have travelled on the line through Dagenham (the unlovely place of my childhood) more times that I can count (2 ways, 5 days a week, however many weeks a year one is at school, for 7 years; and then for commuting to work purposes for another 5 years or so 2 ways 5 days a week, and countless leisure). On a D-stock that was bricked, once, and that wasbetween Elm Park and Hornchurch. I am aware of the reputation, but as far as I know the combination of fenced in bridges and police helicopter runs up and down the line have made it much less bad than it once was.

Some of the lines round Glasgow must surely be pretty bad, given the rate of violent crime in some neighbourhoods there?

paulb1973 · 24 Jan 2012

The stretch between Coventry and Rugby at Willenhall was a well-known vandal & trespass trouble spot. Fencing and CCTV seems to have calmed things down a bit.

150222 · 24 Jan 2012

Grenock used to have a bricking problem. The South London line (via Peckham Rye) also seems pretty awful.

ChristopherJ · 24 Jan 2012

The Essex Thameside route (Fenchurch Street - Shoeburyness and associated branches) must be near the top of the list, you can see lovely places like Basildump, cess-Pitsea, Stanford-no-Hope and Snoberymess. :roll:

- ticket inspector stabbed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16229921

- graffiti attacks
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/501...f_pounds_of_damage_at_Chalkwell_rail_station/

- copper thefts
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8480130.Cable_theft_causes_train_disruption/

TGV · 24 Jan 2012

From personal experience only - I've been on trains in the UK on two occasions where somebody has thrown something at it. Once was on an HST near Wellingborough when some teenagers threw ballast at the carriage sides. The other was a concrete or brick built cutting between Ayr and Newton-on-Ayr stations in Scotland. It was dark, and I couldn't see what was thrown but whatever it was made a loud clang as it bounced off the roof. Train made an unscheduled stop at Newton-on-Ayr where the announcement was made that it was trespass and vandals throwing things at the train. I was amazed it never damaged the OLE - it sounded like a supermarket trolley or something had been tipped of a bridge onto the train.

Neither incident is a reflection on either town or area, just my experience.

Ivo · 24 Jan 2012

xplo42 said:
The Essex Thameside route (Fenchurch St - Shoeburyness and associated branches) must be near the top of the list, you can lovely places like Basildump, cess-Pitsea, Stanford-no-Hope and Snoberymess. :roll:

- ticket inspector stabbed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16229921

- graffiti attacks
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/501...f_pounds_of_damage_at_Chalkwell_rail_station/

- copper thefts
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/8480130.Cable_theft_causes_train_disruption/

Hey! Basildump is my name! I should have copyrighted that years ago :lol:

Seriously though, it isn't anywhere near as bad as that suggests. Those three articles are taken from a period of nearly two years. Plenty of places perform worse.

As far as this kind of thing is concerned, the c2c route through Southend does pretty well - if anything I would say the Victoria route does worse - and only one of those four names above can really be justified in any sense at all (and that's come from someone who lived in Shoeburyness for nearly 19 years). The buses take most of the trouble, as issues such as the 2003 arson attack on the Arriva depot show (I can't find a link though).

Peter Mugridge · 24 Jan 2012

I was on a 302 passing Dagenham Marshes once when the windows immediately in front of my seat on both sides simultaneously shattered ( the one by me inwards and the one on the other side of the carriage outwards ); probably some kid messing around taking pot shots at trains with an air gun...??

pmgarvey · 24 Jan 2012

150222 said:
Grenock used to have a bricking problem. The South London line (via Peckham Rye) also seems pretty awful.

I've gotten the South London line a fair few times between South Bermondsey and Victoria late at night and never had the slightest issue on it (considering the crime rates of the areas it passes through no mean feat).

Urban Gateline · 25 Jan 2012

-HarleyD- said:
Sounds like the approach to Feltham on the up line. The track passes alongside an estate and I have been working many trains in the past along that stretch and had windows pop in the carriage I was working as the little darlings living there pelt the trains with stones.

From a staff assault/antisocial behavior point of view. The Hounslow loop and the line between Virginia Water and Weybridge (specifically Chertsy and Addlestone) and also Ascot to Aldershot (Sp. Camberly and Frimley) used to be particularly bad to the point that after 19:00 the guards would not walk through the trains and RP staff would only work them mob handed. I dont know if these have improved in the years since I left the railway, Chances are that they have become worse tbh.

I don't think much has changed, Feltham is still a pretty bad area! (Matt Taylor - SWT Guard will probably be able to confirm!)

The problems with the lines you mention are that they are all unstaffed stations in the afternoon and evenings, I think this recurring theme seems to attract yobs who come and mess around.

The Ascot - Aldershot surprises me as I thought that area was quite classy, I must be wrong though! Again the small stations there are not manned after mornings! I once went on that line between Bagshot and Aldershot and both ways the Guard never walked through the train, and this was in daylight at about 10am!

-HarleyD- · 25 Jan 2012

molesey boy said:
I don't think much has changed, Feltham is still a pretty bad area! (Matt Taylor - SWT Guard will probably be able to confirm!)

The problems with the lines you mention are that they are all unstaffed stations in the afternoon and evenings, I think this recurring theme seems to attract yobs who come and mess around.

The Ascot - Aldershot surprises me as I thought that area was quite classy, I must be wrong though! Again the small stations there are not manned after mornings! I once went on that line between Bagshot and Aldershot and both ways the Guard never walked through the train, and this was in daylight at about 10am!

When I was an RPA at that end of the Reading line we would not block Chertsey, Addlestone or Camberley of an evening without a BTP Presence. It was considered too much of a safety risk. All 3 Stations have a local element that feels it has a god given right to travel for free. I am sure you know the type. Market Burberry Knock offs, big dog on a chain and talk like "Dis, Innit blud bredren" even though they are white, And want to fight the world just because it makes them look hard infront of their mates.... Instant idiots, just add alcohol/drugs and they get worse :-x. Ironically I used to feel safer working the gates at Clapham or Vauxhall than I ever did working on those trains :roll:

Feltham itself is a scumzone. passengers arriving there without tickets only EVER come from Ashford or Whitton but more usually "I got on at the last station mate" Even though they dont know the name of the station and cannot describe it in any way

. Funnily enough you can tell that these types are not locals, You never really speak to the the locals at Feltham as they just climb the fences or walk off the end of the platform and jump the level crossing gates.....

Rant over. I am enjoying reading this thread lol

tlionhart · 25 Jan 2012

Feltham can be a bad place at night. Security and BTP presence has improved the safety at the station, but when you leave the station it's not a nice place to be!

I use to catch a train often from haslemere near Guildford (I'm from the Staines area) late at night. Now the route would be haslemere-Woking-weybridge-Staines
However for my safety I would catch the train from haslemere-London waterloo (pay the £2 extra) or change at clapham junction (free). I rarely paid the £2 for the clapham-Waterloo as the guards knew exactly what I was doing they just use to let me off. Considering I had a ticket anyway. Some guards would say 'don't blame you!' Depending on what train I was on. I felt much safer doing this, especially with the types of passengers around. Then when leaving London the train was just full of late evening commuters (late finishers or just rolling back up after, after-work drinks) no problems. I use to love passing through weybridge at speed, seeing there was no train there or groups of yobs at the station. The weybridge train would usually serve addlestone, chertsey, etc and they tend to attract crowds from the Jeremy Kyle show. However during the day the towns are fine. This was sometime ago, now police presence and security staff have increased.

Nym · 25 Jan 2012

Remind me to ask in here for places to avoid if I end up working in London...

Ivo · 25 Jan 2012

I can't believe all this negativity about Feltham. I've never known any problems there, and I've used it at all manner of times - 0600, 2300, and pretty much everything in-between. The people I know there (including my father) never complain either.

tlionhart · 25 Jan 2012

Ivo, I do agree to some extent of what you say. It's most certainly not the worst place out there. It has improved now, since all the recent developments have taken place. Now south-east London is much worst! One of my work colleagues lives close to Feltham station, I find the walk eerie and intimidating. As soon as you leave the station and head towards the st.giles hotel you just feel this sense of danger. As if someone is going to jump out and mug you. In addition to that there is a parade of shops next to the hotel where gangs of teenage lads gather. I do keep myself, to myself and cross the road to avoid them. Just them being there is intimidating. Fair enough, Staines has its fair share of problems. Again this has improved especially since the introduction of the gates. I'm sure staff recieve grief from yobs trying to jump the barriers or bunk the train however there is a BTP presence now and with the nick 5mins away there is officers close by. I also want to praise Surrey police and the BTP for monitoring who was entering and leaving the town by train during the Thorpe Park fright nights. Now that's a complete new story or topic!

O L Leigh · 25 Jan 2012

Sounds like the Hertford East branch. Once the ticket offices close the only staff down there are the drivers, and once you pass the 'Up' train at Rye House it's just you. Then you're at the mercy of the local toerags.

Ticketless travel is just the thin end of the wedge with doors being held, train surfing, attempts at using the "porter buttons" to interfere with the doors, breaking into middle cabs, unauthorised use of the PA to make racist announcements, ripping up seats (even when I'm in the train yelling at them to pack it in), graffiti, trespass and vandalism, drug dealing and god knows what else going on. You know, they put brand new platform shelters on Rye House but the local youth dedicated itself to dismantling them. Once upon a time they were enclosed with seats. Now they are just roofs on legs and completely open to the elements.

F***ing hate the place. I just wish they'd lift the f***ing junction so we can't go there any more. It's fine on earlies but it's Apache Country on lates and I always heave a sigh of relief when I get back onto the mainline.

O L Leigh

samj · 25 Jan 2012

Manchester Victoria-Rochdale, plenty of problems around Moston, Castleton and Miles Platting areas.

Blackpool lines can be horrible in the Summer, in terms of people onboard etc.

callum112233 · 25 Jan 2012

Never seen any trouble around Miles Platting but I know what you mean by Moston, that place is a ghetto.

Chapeltom · 25 Jan 2012

Having been to Moston, yes it is an awful place but the areas near Gorton and Ryder Brow stations are worse

craigwilson · 25 Jan 2012

Chapeltom said:
Having been to Moston, yes it is an awful place but the areas near Gorton and Ryder Brow stations are worse

I don't think I've ever seen anyone at Ryder Brow (I used to live near Reddish North) - the frequency of trains there is very low compared to Reddish, so anyone living there would get a 201/203/204 bus rather than the train.

87015 · 25 Jan 2012

O L Leigh said:
Sounds like the Hertford East branch. Once the ticket offices close the only staff down there are the drivers, and once you pass the 'Up' train at Rye House it's just you. Then you're at the mercy of the local toerags.

It does get a bit Beirut down there on a regular basis - the level of stuff that happens I've half expected the last services to be permanently caped by now.

CC 72100 · 25 Jan 2012

Agree with previous comments about the East end of the District line... remember a feature on it during the TV series 'The Tube' which ran between 2003-2006. Ah, how I do miss that show! :P

PFX · 25 Jan 2012

W-on-Sea said:
Some of the lines round Glasgow must surely be pretty bad, given the rate of violent crime in some neighbourhoods there?

An astute piece of social commentary indeed.

stut · 25 Jan 2012

I've heard that the line between Workington and Whitehaven can be pretty bad, particularly for swinging bricks.

mountainmike · 25 Jan 2012

Back in the 70's before the underground was built in Liverpool there used to be an hourly DMU service from Southport to Liverpool Lime Street via Bootle Junction and Edge Hill. The line is freight only now. We were travelling back from Lime Street one evening after a day trip to London. As I was about 7 or 8 at the time we sat behind the driver and had a massive shock when the window on our left came in , followed by a brick. This was as we were travelling by Anfield cemetery and the guard told us that this bit of line was known as 'bomber's alley'. We were lucky not to be cut as we did have some glass on our coats . The driver shrugged it off and said it was par for the course in that part of Liverpool. Apart from that the only other time I've been bricked was about 5 years ago between Newcastle and Durham where the window in the next bay to mine was done , and although the outside pane fell out eventually en route to York , the fitters boarded it up there and we progressed to kings Cross only about 20 down.

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