PLUS Bus Rules

sonic2009 · 30 Jan 2012

Upon travelling to Birmingham Today, I needed to travel out to Bartley Green later on in my day. upon arriving at Birmingham New Street I asked the RPI for a Birmingham Plus Bus with my Y-P railcard.I planned to catch a train out to Walsall where my ticket was purchased to in the end.

1. RPI refused to give my railcard discount saying it's only valid for 'train' tickets not bus tickets, I didn't want too argue as I was in a rush.

2. On my way back from Walsall into Birmingham, I went to the Virgin T.Office and asked for a plus bus, explaining that I was breaking my journey, and needed to travel out to the 'suburbs'. I was told they couldn't sell them unless my ticket said Bham Stations. I asked for a Walsall plusbus as this would be valid as they are issued to Station+BUSWM valid on metro+ bus again told No.

In the end I got it from Snow Hill As the bus i caught went from colomore row, who happily sold me the ticket. From Birmingham Stns&Birmingham+BusWm

So this asks the Question. What are the rules? I can see nothing in the terms and conditions.

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142094 · 30 Jan 2012

Railcard discount is certainly available, and I have used it many times in the past.

There does seem to be a real problem with Plusbus tickets being issued at stations, which no doubt is due to either a lack of awareness or a lack of training.

dvboy · 30 Jan 2012

Where was your ticket from?

Aictos · 30 Jan 2012

I'm sorry but the staff do seem to be correct this time, Plusbus quotes:

Your origin OR destination rail station MUST be outside the 'network west midlands' (Centro PTE)*area*in order to buy a Birmingham PLUSBUS ticket.

However you haven't said where you were travelling to Birmingham from, in which case you could have brought a Birmingham Plusbus ticket using the Young Persons Discount with your rail tickets to Birmingham.

34D · 30 Jan 2012

142094 said:
Railcard discount is certainly available, and I have used it many times in the past.

There does seem to be a real problem with Plusbus tickets being issued at stations, which no doubt is due to either a lack of awareness or a lack of training.

I seem to recall they are only available at the start or end station, and not break points. I don't recall the detail though!

142094 · 30 Jan 2012

34D said:
I seem to recall they are only available at the start or end station, and not break points. I don't recall the detail though!

I don't think that is the case, you can buy them at any station (unless you are referring to buying a Plusbus for a station in between the start and end stations?).

SS4 · 30 Jan 2012

ajax103 said:
I'm sorry but the staff do seem to be correct this time, Plusbus quotes:

Your origin OR destination rail station MUST be outside the 'network west midlands' (Centro PTE)*area*in order to buy a Birmingham PLUSBUS ticket.

However you haven't said where you were travelling to Birmingham from, in which case you could have brought a Birmingham Plusbus ticket using the Young Persons Discount with your rail tickets to Birmingham.

If this is related to the OP's thread earlier in the day he travelled from Ashchurch so from outside the zones.

Railcard discounts are definitely valid on plusbus, I've had loads of them (it acts like an nbus ticket so you're not restricted to nxwm). I've bought them in advance and once when I got back from a trip

hairyhandedfool · 30 Jan 2012

PlusBus should only be issued for use at the destination or origin printed on the ticket, not a station along the route.

For example, a passenger with a ticket from Glasgow to Birmingham could have a PlusBus ticket for Glasgow and/or Birmingham, but they could not have a Manchester PlusBus ticket. There would be nothing to stop the traveller picking up the Birmingham PlusBus ticket in Manchester though.

If the area covered by a origin/destination PlusBus and a mid point PlusBus is the same, I see no harm in issuing it from there, however it is not strictly by the rules, the origin/destination should always be used.

I do recall at one point Railcard discounts were not available on bus links (and I think PlusBus) but this appears to no longer be the case.

142094 · 30 Jan 2012

As far as I'm aware railcard discounts have always been available on PlusBus tickets, but not on the season ticket Plusbuses.

tony_mac · 30 Jan 2012

sonic2009 said:
So this asks the Question. What are the rules? I can see nothing in the terms and conditions.

What rules are you looking for?
Yes, there should be a railcard discount.
No, you shouldn't be allowed to buy it for an intermediate area.

No, the staff don't always know the rules and will refuse to sell it for some reason. (We can't sell them within the area, we can only sell them with a new ticket, I don't know what button to press.....)

34D · 30 Jan 2012

142094 said:
I don't think that is the case, you can buy them at any station (unless you are referring to buying a Plusbus for a station in between the start and end stations?).

HHF has explained it much better than I did

dvboy · 30 Jan 2012

hairyhandedfool said:
PlusBus should only be issued for use at the destination or origin printed on the ticket, not a station along the route.

For example, a passenger with a ticket from Glasgow to Birmingham could have a PlusBus ticket for Glasgow and/or Birmingham, but they could not have a Manchester PlusBus ticket. There would be nothing to stop the traveller picking up the Birmingham PlusBus ticket in Manchester though.

If the area covered by a origin/destination PlusBus and a mid point PlusBus is the same, I see no harm in issuing it from there, however it is not strictly by the rules, the origin/destination should always be used.

A plusbus ticket for any origin/destination in the West Midlands is valid within the West Midlands so, you can have a ticket from Ashchurch to Walsall and be able to use a Walsall plusbus ticket on the bus in Birmingham even when breaking your journey on the way back.

There nothing stopping the OP travelling from Walsall back to Birmingham on the return part of his journey, then getting a bus to Bartley Green on a Walsall plusbus ticket.

The only problem is where the origin and destination are in the same area, that's why I asked where the ticket was from. You can't, for example, buy a ticket from Wolverhampton to Walsall and add plusbus because the plusbus area is the same.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

sonic2009 said:
In the end I got it from Snow Hill As the bus i caught went from colomore row, who happily sold me the ticket. From Birmingham Stns&Birmingham+BusWm.

Snow Hill should have sold you a Walsall plusbus.

I suspect the reason New Street wouldn't do it is because they are probably told they can only issue it from origin or destination, and you'd broken your journey.

sonic2009 · 30 Jan 2012

Sorry my ticket was an Ashchurch to Walsall Off Peak Return. Interesting addition to this, upon getting on my 2146 to Ashchurch I approaches the guard and asked him for a Tewkesbury Bus single, and he said not allowed to sell on board anymore and tickets must be purchased when buying train tickets. I didn't diasagree

GadgetMan · 30 Jan 2012

sonic2009 said:
Sorry my ticket was an Ashchurch to Walsall Off Peak Return. Interesting addition to this, upon getting on my 2146 to Ashchurch I approaches the guard and asked him for a Tewkesbury Bus single, and he said not allowed to sell on board anymore and tickets must be purchased when buying train tickets. I didn't diasagree

It may be related to the fact some TOCs have had problems where the Avantix printer gets more or less disabled when the user has attempted to print a plusbus. I kid you not, I didn't believe it until I agreed to sell a plusbus on the train and the printer started printing black bars. Neither I nor the Avantix lobby could get it working again. It had to be sent to ATOS. We've been instructed not to retail plusbus on board until further notice.

The above may not apply to all TOCs.

ChrisCooper · 31 Jan 2012

I suppose the problem is that if you could buy plusbus from anywhere, as opposed to just the origin or destination of a ticket, then people could buy them instead of buying tickets from the bus operators. I mean for example where I live a railcard plusbus is £1.85, yet the cheapest single fare is £1.30 (and they wonder why nobody other than kids and free pass holders use the buses), so for a return trip a plusbus is cheaper. Plusbus addons are usually cheaper than single operator day tickets, and much cheaper than multi-operator ones (Nottingham with it's Kangaroo being one of the few exceptions, although there is no plusbus there but at £3.70 it's not much more than similar cities plusbus addons are, and it's valid on trams and trains).

Eagle · 31 Jan 2012

ajax103 said:
Your origin OR destination rail station MUST be outside the 'network west midlands' (Centro PTE)*area*in order to buy a Birmingham PLUSBUS ticket.

This applies to Coventry PlusBus as well. Otherwise I could buy an Anytime Single from Berkswell (in the borough of Solihull) to Tile Hill (in Coventry) with a Coventry PlusBus, which would be just £3.15 with a rail card, and use it simply as a bus day ticket. A day ticket on NX Coventry alone is £3.60, and a simple return is £3.40. (Your PlusBus would also be valid on De Courcey and Stagecoach Warks as well.)

Instead the cheapest ticket you can apply a PlusBus to is Bedworth to Coventry, totalling £4.20 with a railcard.

I think it's a little unfair though that you can't add PlusBus to tickets sich as Wolverhampton to Coventry, but I can't think of any way round the above abuse of Centro's fares system.

hairyhandedfool · 31 Jan 2012

dvboy said:
A plusbus ticket for any origin/destination in the West Midlands is valid within the West Midlands so, you can have a ticket from Ashchurch to Walsall and be able to use a Walsall plusbus ticket on the bus in Birmingham even when breaking your journey on the way back.

There nothing stopping the OP travelling from Walsall back to Birmingham on the return part of his journey, then getting a bus to Bartley Green on a Walsall plusbus ticket....

I agree, provided the ticket is valid for break of journey.

dvboy said:
The only problem is where the origin and destination are in the same area, that's why I asked where the ticket was from. You can't, for example, buy a ticket from Wolverhampton to Walsall and add plusbus because the plusbus area is the same.

Indeed. This is true of all PlusBus tickets as far as I am aware. They can't be given if the origin and destination on the ticket are both within the same PlusBus area.

dvboy said:
....Snow Hill should have sold you a Walsall plusbus....

Correct, but as the area is the same there is little or no difference. (technically the bus drivers could have refused the Birmingham PlusBus ticket as it is not accompanied by a Birmingham Stns ticket, but I think that would be harsh of them to do so).

dvboy said:
....I suspect the reason New Street wouldn't do it is because they are probably told they can only issue it from origin or destination, and you'd broken your journey.

The op did mention he was refused the Birmingham PlusBus because the ticket held was to Walsall, but then added that the Walsall PlusBus was also refused, although no mention was made of why it was refused. A common clerk error for PlusBus is believing it can't be issued within the area of validity (unless it is from that station in some cases). In any case, the clerk's refusal seems not to be correct (unless there is more to the story).

John @ home · 31 Jan 2012

hairyhandedfool said:
technically the bus drivers could have refused the Birmingham PlusBus ticket as it is not accompanied by a Birmingham Stns ticket

Not agreed. The PlusBus ticket on its own must be accepted. For some day return journeys, the outward and return portions of the railway ticket will both have been retained in ticket barriers, leaving the passenger with the PlusBus ticket only to show to the bus driver for the bus journey home on arrival back at their origin station.

hairyhandedfool · 31 Jan 2012

Maybe it's one of those things that get changed occasionally, I'm sure it was the case, but I can't now see it in either the FRPP or the PlusBus website, so I stand corrected.

John @ home · 31 Jan 2012

hairyhandedfool said:
I'm sure it was the case

I think it may have been the case when the PlusBus element was included in the railway ticket. I used to be able to get a CDR Origin PlusBus - Destination PlusBus issued as two tickets, outward and return. Now I get 4 tickets, railway OUT and RTN and two PlusBus tickets.

barrykas · 31 Jan 2012

Quick summary of the main PLUSBUS rules:

1) MUST be issued separately from the rail ticket for the journey being made. (Suspect that may have been introduced because people were using them effectively as a season ticket on period returns).
2) If you're returning on a different day, you need to buy a separate PLUSBUS ticket (or tickets) for that day as well.
3) If buying a Season ticket, it MUST expire on the same day, or before, the rail season.
4) A PLUSBUS Season MUST NOT be sold without holding a rail season to/from the same town.
5) PLUSBUS is NOT available for rail journeys wholly within the same zone.
6) Railcard discounts are available on day tickets for holders of 16-25, Disabled, Family & Friends, HM Forces, Network (and Gold Card) and Senior Railcards, subject to any restrictions on use at peak times. Minimum fares DO NOT apply.
7) PRIV discounts are NOT available.

Cheers,

Barry

142094 · 31 Jan 2012

34D said:
HHF has explained it much better than I did

That's what I thought you were trying to say.

34D · 31 Jan 2012

John @ home said:
Not agreed. The PlusBus ticket on its own must be accepted. For some day return journeys, the outward and return portions of the railway ticket will both have been retained in ticket barriers, leaving the passenger with the PlusBus ticket only to show to the bus driver for the bus journey home on arrival back at their origin station.

Seconded. As someone who (occasionally) drives buses that accept them, then checking a rail ticket (apart from the plusbus on standard stock) is never part of the equation.

ChrisCooper · 31 Jan 2012

Having seperate tickets also makes the bus drivers job much easier as it's far easier to see what it is and where and when it is valid. The old combined ones were much harder to see the details, and oviously if drivers are taking longer to look at tickets then it will delay the service than if they can get what they need with a quick glance.

142094 · 31 Jan 2012

At the start of the scheme bus drivers in two areas I have used it with said they hadn't been told about "these train tickets". Thankfully most buses now have a logo stickered onto the doors or a window which shows that they accept them.

bicbasher · 31 Jan 2012

142094 said:
At the start of the scheme bus drivers in two areas I have used it with said they hadn't been told about "these train tickets". Thankfully most buses now have a logo stickered onto the doors or a window which shows that they accept them.

As I haven't used Plusbus yet, I take it a separate ticket is printed on the usual stock similar to the London Travelcard and you show it to the driver in the same way?

hairyhandedfool · 31 Jan 2012

It is on the standard orange ticket stock.

transportphoto · 31 Jan 2012

Examplar tickets can be found here: http://arriva-shires.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/AylesburyBUS-Driver-poster-Feb.-2011.jpg

dvboy · 31 Jan 2012

I never knew they existed as seasons!

jon0844 · 31 Jan 2012

I had an annual season, as it was cheaper than an equivalent from my local bus operator (which would have also limited me to just one operator).

ISTR they froze the price for a few years. Not sure it went up for 2012, but I assume it did - as I think that instead of £1.80/1.85 a day it's now £2 for a day.

PLUS Bus Rules

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