alexf380
Established Member
I was reading the latest update on thejunction.org and it said that 3 car sets are being formed by inserting 57209 & 57212 into other trains. I was wondering what has happened to these trains.
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What happened to 150209/212?
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PHILIPE
Veteran Member
This has already been mentioned on the Forum. The 2 vehicles are 57 (toiletless) vehicles having lost their 52 partners due to mishaps and becoming write-offs. They have been or being inserted as Centre Cars in 150121 and 150127, similar to their use on LM. They are retaining their present numbers
alexf380
Established Member
Ah, I see. Thanks anyway.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Since my post, I have looked at junction and see it has been updated in respect of this.
Schnellzug
Established Member
Apparently the other two cars were withdrawn after acccidents soon after they were introduced. I never knew that any had been written of either.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Yup.
If memory serves me correctly, one of these units hit a road vehicle on a crossing at Seamer in Yorkshire while the other jumped the tracks at St Helens and collided with a bridge. Both vehicles were damaged beyond economic repair and the surviving cars used to make up hybrid 3 car units. BR apparently covered for the loss of these units by ordering an additional Cl158 which were at that time still on the drawing board.
O L Leigh
If memory serves me correctly, one of these units hit a road vehicle on a crossing at Seamer in Yorkshire while the other jumped the tracks at St Helens and collided with a bridge. Both vehicles were damaged beyond economic repair and the surviving cars used to make up hybrid 3 car units. BR apparently covered for the loss of these units by ordering an additional Cl158 which were at that time still on the drawing board.
O L Leigh
trainspotter
Member
57209 newly painted and looking very smart, is now part of FGW's 150127 see here at Exeter St David's station on 9.2.2012 with a service for Paigton!
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northernrailer
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It does look a bit odd that the snowplough has been left on, but just say for instance 52127 or 57127 had a fault, then the unit could still operate as a two car unit (if its the wrong end then 57209 would need turning round) and a snowplough wouldnt need refitting as its already there. Im sure its been left on for some kind of operational reason.
Turbostar
Member
But then, what's the difference then with LM running the unit, & FGW running the unit??? Why should FGW feel the need to keep it, when LM didn't???
northernrailer
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The London Midland hybrid class 150/0 units were permanent formations and most of them had been since around 1995, there was a few reformations between 1995 - 2011. The ones that was permanent and had been since 1995 - 2011 were 150010, 150011, 150012, 150013, 150014, 150015, 150016 and 150017 so they decided to remove the snowploughs.
I guess First Great Western are thinking of it in an operational sense, so that 57209 could run straight away in service with out the delay of finding and fitting a snowplough to it if 52127 or 57127 had a fault and had to be taken off and reduced down to 2 cars, who knows why the snowploughs been left on. I dont think this will be a permanent formation with 150121 and 150127, 57212 and 57209 could be swopped around other 150/1 units.
I guess First Great Western are thinking of it in an operational sense, so that 57209 could run straight away in service with out the delay of finding and fitting a snowplough to it if 52127 or 57127 had a fault and had to be taken off and reduced down to 2 cars, who knows why the snowploughs been left on. I dont think this will be a permanent formation with 150121 and 150127, 57212 and 57209 could be swopped around other 150/1 units.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Why the excitement? These units CAN run without snowploughs, just as they did when brand new. They only become important when the snow gets deep enough that traction without miniature ploughs are not permitted to run.
Even if 57209 found itself as a lead car in a formation rather than a centre car it wouldn't automatically need a plough.
O L Leigh
Even if 57209 found itself as a lead car in a formation rather than a centre car it wouldn't automatically need a plough.
O L Leigh
driver9000
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They aren't snowploughs. They are obstacle deflectors.
dubscottie
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Schnellzug
Established Member
pity they couldn't get the coach numbers at the same height ...
driver9000
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When I was trained on the 15x fleet we were explicitly taught that they are not snowploughs due to their height from the rail. This was to avoid confusion when applying the regulations for working in snow with miniature ploughs. The plates fitted to 15x are not considered to be snowploughs for working in snow, they are obstacle deflectors and the units are not allowed in traffic as a leading end without them.
However, some Scottish region 156 and 158s are fitted with modified deflectors which are considered to be miniature snowploughs as demonstrated by the link.
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trainspotter
Member
Monday morning job??????PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Or cow catchers perhaps
O L Leigh
Established Member
Sorry old chap, but that just sounds like smoke and mirrors.
These plates as you call them would make lousy obstacle deflectors for the same reason you say they are not miniature snowploughs. They are just too high. Besides, the Cl15X units have the same obstacle deflectors that our EMUs have in the form of metal arms attached to the leading bogie that run just ahead of the leading wheelset, and we don't have these plates fitted to any of our units and can happily run at speeds up to 100mph.
No matter what you've been told I have to agree with the majority that these are indeed miniature ploughs. If your TOC has decided to call them something different in order that they wriggle out of running in difficult conditions then fair play to them and good luck.
However, if you look at the Rules there is only a 100mm window in which trains with miniature ploughs can run. Yes they can be authorised to run in snow depths up to 450mm if, but normally they would only be cleared to run in snow depths up to 300mm. Given that normal running can continue in depths up to 200mm the plates on a Cl15X unit don't have to be that close to the rail in order to provide sufficient snow clearance for normal running to continue.
O L Leigh
driver9000
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I can only go on my training obviously. It is not a recent role change decided upon by my TOC, we were taught them by an instructor who was in the grade when they were fitted who said that even then (under BR) that they were not snow ploughs and were intended as obstacle deflectors. This has been confirmed by other BR drivers at the time too. They are better obstacle deflectors than you would think too.
This website, although dedicated to the class 156 has a small section on the modified deflector plates fitted to the Scottish 156s. The plates are the same design fitted to the other Sprinter types: http://members.madasafish.com/~dysgraphyk/156/class156_mods.htm
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dubscottie
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The metal arms attached to the bogies in front of the leading wheelset are called Guard Irons.. Also as far as I am aware the "plough" on 150, 153, 155 & 156 can be lowered in times of bad weather.
During last years bad weather, ScotRail tried to have only 158's working to Inverness as the "plough" on the 170's was about as much use as mahogany gas pipe...
During last years bad weather, ScotRail tried to have only 158's working to Inverness as the "plough" on the 170's was about as much use as mahogany gas pipe...
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