Ivo
Established Member
You do that then. I'll be sure to ask for my sister's opinion next time she visits Sheerness
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Class 323 issues - the Reprise!
- Thread starter Ivo
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You do that then. I'll be sure to ask for my sister's opinion next time she visits Sheerness
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RobShipway
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Having travelled years ago on a 323 on the Birmingham Cross City line, they are very good trains and if they were 3rd rail capable I would ask if they could replace the Class 458's on the local Reading - London Waterloo route. I think if you were given the choice between a Class 313, 458 or 323, you would pick the 323 any day of the week.
Ivo
Established Member
I wouldn't. 458s may not be anything special but - the hideously loud door alarm sounds aside - there's nothing wrong with them in my perspective. The Waterloo to Reading route can keep them (and the 450s before anyone suggests as much).
As for 313s? They're better than 323s in my opinion (which I know isn't valued in this thread but oh well :roll
, but not much else.Tomonthetrain
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IMO Ivo, 323s shouldve been the main EMU order because they are nice little runners.
Nym
Established Member
The 444s and 450s come a close 2nd on traction noise though...
[youtube]osG8r2tEGWg[/youtube]
[youtube]osG8r2tEGWg[/youtube]
Based on that video (having never heard a 444 or 450 depart from the outside - I couldn't hear it when I was on the inside of either of them), the 450 has a pretty good traction noise, and the acceleration of them seems pretty damn good as well.
60163
Member
323s are my local branch line, love them.
Toilets ain't amazing (they're just toilets), floor sometimes has bubbles underneath (!), but very zippy, smooth, ideal for 30-min trips. Great acelleration too.
Toilets ain't amazing (they're just toilets), floor sometimes has bubbles underneath (!), but very zippy, smooth, ideal for 30-min trips. Great acelleration too.
Nym
Established Member
That is the next evolution of the GTO Thyristor systems used in the 323s and Networkers, but it does not use GTOs, uses IGBTs IIRC, the Alstom system just squals.
They do sound good, but I don't care what anyone says, the best Traction Motor scream of any EMU's is the Class 319! Absolute monsters. Followed by 317's and 321/322's, and the EE507 Traction Motor as fitted to the 411 Cep's, 421 Cig's and 423 Vep's.
Ivo
Established Member
They do sound good, but I don't care what anyone says, the best Traction Motor scream of any EMU's is the Class 319! Absolute monsters. Followed by 317's and 321/322's
At least those things sound like an EMU should, unlike 323s. Not much else is interesting about them though - I'm not particularly keen on them either.
Come to think of it, I'm not keen on anything between 313 and 323 inclusive. Or their third rail equivalents.
I'm afraid I again can't agree with you Ivo :P
The 323's are brilliant little units, even the unrefreshed Northern ones. I got something of a shock to find the loos on board had running HOT water onboard
hock:
The refresh of the Northern units is a definite marked improvement and they look rather smart. Just don't let Lampshade anywhere near them else there may not be any seat handles left
The 323's are brilliant little units, even the unrefreshed Northern ones. I got something of a shock to find the loos on board had running HOT water onboard
hock:The refresh of the Northern units is a definite marked improvement and they look rather smart. Just don't let Lampshade anywhere near them else there may not be any seat handles left
Tomonthetrain
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The 323's are brilliant little units, even the unrefreshed Northern ones. I got something of a shock to find the loos on board had running HOT water onboard
Agreed
Ivo
Established Member
I can't get away from you lot saying 323s are good can I? I've just received a PM (replying to something else I sent) saying they are good units :roll:
Turbostar
Member
Are you for real Ivo, or are you just on a complain streak??? More to the point, is there any real benefit of this thread, only just for you to have a rant about trains you dislike???
RobShipway
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We all have our points of view on the different types pf train and this should be accepted as should Ivo having a different point of view from most of us in this forum.
swt_passenger
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Did you read the first post thoroughly?
It isn't a point of view, it's a total rant without any justification - and Ivo explicitly invited any criticism he's getting within that post anyway...
Ivo
Established Member
Isn't half of the point of discussion forums to encourage debate?
I know I am in the minority but I absolutely abhor the things and wish to discuss this (as was done some time ago; note the lack of long-term lack of journeys I had had until Saturday). If those who disagree feel the need to respond, let them do so also.
Oh, and given the day I should be allowed a rant. I've deliberately avoided complaining about it being Valentine's Day so this will do instead.
I know I am in the minority but I absolutely abhor the things and wish to discuss this (as was done some time ago; note the lack of long-term lack of journeys I had had until Saturday). If those who disagree feel the need to respond, let them do so also.
Oh, and given the day I should be allowed a rant. I've deliberately avoided complaining about it being Valentine's Day so this will do instead.
All I can say is the 323s are excellent by Northern 'West' standards. I don't want to start the Pacer wars here but as a Pacer commuter and I think they are great compared to the downright dinginess and sluggishness of a 142's acceleration, interior and general quality. Perhaps it's different for those who see 142s with 'bus seats' as a novelty.
The interiors may not be luxurious, but it would be inappropriate for them to be so. Maybe you are associating them with the Cross City line or something?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Doors seem fine to me. Walls are not objectionable. Seats are much better than anything provided by an ex-FNW or Merseytravel 142. Toilets are OK - better than this on a Pacer. Most local stock on Northern at least doesn't have tables - none on 142/144/150/153/155/333/332. Noises are unique (reminds me of the LU '96 stock - do you loathe that too?). 90mph is good. Layout far better than most Northern 'West' Pacers.
Since you mentioned them being much worse than Pacers, I have tried to compare them.
The interiors may not be luxurious, but it would be inappropriate for them to be so. Maybe you are associating them with the Cross City line or something?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Doors seem fine to me. Walls are not objectionable. Seats are much better than anything provided by an ex-FNW or Merseytravel 142. Toilets are OK - better than this on a Pacer. Most local stock on Northern at least doesn't have tables - none on 142/144/150/153/155/333/332. Noises are unique (reminds me of the LU '96 stock - do you loathe that too?). 90mph is good. Layout far better than most Northern 'West' Pacers.
Since you mentioned them being much worse than Pacers, I have tried to compare them.
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Ivo
Established Member
Everyone knows I don't like the Cross City
The 1996 Stock sound much better. None of this F1 wannabe stuff, even though it reaches much higher pitches far more easily. Further, it only changes frequency a couple of times before hitting typical travel speed, as opposed to about 10 low-frequency shifts which sounds far worse. I am a little bored of the 1996 Stock though, having used them countless times between West Ham and Waterloo...
The 323s aren't my favourite type of provincial EMU - that would have to be the 333s, but I really don't see the objection. However, you're entitled to your opinion and even in a true democracy it's the majority's voice that is heard the most.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is this also contributing to your dislike of them?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Everyone knows I don't like the Cross City
Is this also contributing to your dislike of them?
Robinson
Member
I spent 6 years at boarding school in Manchester, travelling home and back every quarter term. Many of those journeys involved using Northern between Manchester Piccadilly and Preston, especially after direct Manchester-Scotland Voyagers ceased when Virgin lost CrossCountry.
You have no idea how many times I wished that line was electrified so we could have 323s to Preston, while I was stuck on a 150...
You have no idea how many times I wished that line was electrified so we could have 323s to Preston, while I was stuck on a 150...
Ivo
Established Member
Everyone knows I don't like the Cross City
Is this also contributing to your dislike of them?
...probably.
Lampshade
Established Member
This. I'm pretty sure the journey times on the stoppers would be at least ten minutes quicker with 323s over 150s; and the extra carriage would always be welcome.
The refresh of the Northern units is a definite marked improvement and they look rather smart. Just don't let Lampshade anywhere near them else there may not be any seat handles left
Ahem
150222
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WestCoast all class 153's and class 155's have tables and FGW/ATW examples of class 150/2's do as well!
Bevan Price
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Well - they did used to work some Birmingham - Liverpool services, and that required lively running, although the 2+3 seating was less than ideal for such journeys.
466.networkers
Member
You do that then. I'll be sure to ask for my sister's opinion next time she visits Sheerness
We get Networkers thanks!!
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Think it's Macclesfield to Congleton where they really get going though. Did Macc to Stoke in August last year on a 323 and I was amazed how fast they could go. Need to do that run again sometime, or at least Stoke to Kidsgrove next time I do a WMDR. Nice to be able to scoop Northern units on a WMDR...
Anyway, Ivo clearly dislikes the 323s. Sadly, nothing we say can change his mind there. One day he may end up getting on one and having a brilliant journey on one and completely change his views. The exact opposite has happened to me before now...
150001
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The 323s are excellent; never had any problem with them yet and they are quick and comfortable but the interiors aren't suited to intercity trips.
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