Short Platforms - What used to happen?

Essexman · 22 Feb 2012

Travelling on the Cotswold Line at the weekend, where most platforms are too short for HSTs and only some doors opened, I wondered what used to happen with locomotive hauled trains before the days of central locking.
Did they pull up twice?

I only recall using the line once in the 1970s, and although there were then less stops on the Hereford trains, the train was of fair length (extra coaches were added at Worcester) and to pull up twice would have added to journey time.

Does anyone know what they used to do?

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starrymarkb · 22 Feb 2012

Essexman said:
Travelling on the Cotswold Line at the weekend, where most platforms are too short for HSTs and only some doors opened, I wondered what used to happen with locomotive hauled trains before the days of central locking.
Did they pull up twice?

I only recall using the line once in the 1970s, and although there were then less stops on the Hereford trains, the train was of fair length (extra coaches were added at Worcester) and to pull up twice would have added to journey time.

Does anyone know what they used to do?

Signs saying "Do Not Alight Here" - Pax walk through to a door by the platform

The reason FGW has had to fit selective door opening was that HSTs are now calling at stations that previously have never had HST service so didn't qualify for the exemption from the SDO regulations.

I believe prior to fitment all doors were unlocked.

Anon Mouse · 22 Feb 2012

all doors were unlocked. Passengers were told to walk through and use a door that was by a platform. Passengers were trusted to do this and not open doors and leap out where there was no platform.

In China, I travelled on a train from Chengdu Naan to Pengshan. The train arrived and the platform was shorter than the train and our carriage was not alongside the platform. The staff however opened our carriage doors and we had to climb down onto the cess and walk alongside the train and up the platform ramp with out bags and cases!

Wyvern · 22 Feb 2012

I seem to remember trains pulling up twice on the MML at, I think it was, Market Harborough.

How many stations have had their platforms shortened in the last forty odd years?

Welshman · 22 Feb 2012

Not on the Cotswold line particularly, but I can remember from the days of my youth travelling on day excursions from Halifax in the 1960s up the CalderValley line to Blackpool, Belle Vue or Southport.

The train was often longer than some of the platforms, eg at Luddenden Foot or Mytholmroyd. If it was corridor stock, you simply walked through the train, but if it was non-corridor stock, the train would draw-up. And if you tried to alight where there was no platform, it was your own silly fault.

themiller · 22 Feb 2012

At Silecroft on the Cumbrian Coast line (and many others on the line) the platforms are long enough to accommodate a 6-car 1st generation DMU but have not been maintained beyond 50 metres to save money so we now have a situation where a 3 car 23metre unit will only have 1 door enabled. The conductor will sometimes make an announcement over the PA but if it's noisy this is inaudible. The result is that whilst an unsuspecting passenger waits for the doors to be enabled, the conductor can give the "right away" and the passenger is carried on to the next station unless he/she pulls the emergency handle.

Minilad · 22 Feb 2012

In the olden days people had common sense and there were no ambulance chasing lawyers

martinsh · 22 Feb 2012

Wyvern said:
How many stations have had their platforms shortened in the last forty odd years?

Far too many

Matt Taylor · 22 Feb 2012

As recently as 2005 SWT was still using slam door stock. I recall frequently seeing people jump off the rear 4 of a 12 car at Fratton straight onto the track (not forgetting the 750DC juice rail).

swt_passenger · 22 Feb 2012

Matt Taylor said:
As recently as 2005 SWT was still using slam door stock. I recall frequently seeing people jump off the rear 4 of a 12 car at Fratton straight onto the track (not forgetting the 750DC juice rail).

There are a number of SWT stations near me that have had their 'do not alight here' signs expertly renovated by the vinyl signage contractor only last year - when it would have been a good time to remove those still standing...

marks87 · 22 Feb 2012

swt_passenger said:
There are a number of SWT stations near me that have had their 'do not alight here' signs expertly renovated by the vinyl signage contractor only last year - when it would have been a good time to remove those still standing...

Beauly only re-opened in 2002 and has "Do Not Alight Here" signs.

Presumably they've been kept at old stations and installed at new ones "just in case" all doors are opened by accident.

Shimbleshanks · 22 Feb 2012

themiller said:
At Silecroft on the Cumbrian Coast line (and many others on the line) the platforms are long enough to accommodate a 6-car 1st generation DMU but have not been maintained beyond 50 metres to save money so we now have a situation where a 3 car 23metre unit will only have 1 door enabled. The conductor will sometimes make an announcement over the PA but if it's noisy this is inaudible. The result is that whilst an unsuspecting passenger waits for the doors to be enabled, the conductor can give the "right away" and the passenger is carried on to the next station unless he/she pulls the emergency handle.

I've always wondered if a passenger would be justified in pulling the handle in such a situation or whether there would be a huge fuss, names taken, statements to the BT Plods etc etc.

A similar situation happened to me many years ago at Southampton Airport station when the rear doors on a Class 442 failed to open (the guard had probably cut them out for the Clapham Junction stop and forgot to reset them) and I got carried on to Southampton Central. I and half a dozen other passengers did manage to get a free taxi out of BR from Southampton Central back to Airport and I caught my plane - just - but it did occur to me afterwards that I could have just pulled the cord.

Surreytraveller · 22 Feb 2012

Shimbleshanks said:
I've always wondered if a passenger would be justified in pulling the handle in such a situation or whether there would be a huge fuss, names taken, statements to the BT Plods etc etc.

And that argument has been done to death on here in the past. There are people on here that would have you thrown in prioson for 20 years just for thinking about it!

Essexman · 22 Feb 2012

Thanks.
Yes I recall both pulling up twice and having to walk down the train in years gone by, but as posters suggest, it was the latter that was more common.

hammerwood · 22 Feb 2012

At East Grinstead, and before the 1987 electrification which saw platforms made slightly longer, there were some peak evening trains from London Bridge that were hauled by 33's.

These never fitted into the platforms, so the train would enter the station and everyone got off where the platform actually was, or jumped - or waited for the train to pull forward to bring the rear carriages fully into the platform.

When the train was fully "in", someone (usually the guard) would press the train arrival bell plunger which told the signalman at East Grinstead that the train was clear of the north cross over. That also meant the Crompton could run-round - which I had the pleasure of cabbing regularly as a school boy!

Eagle · 22 Feb 2012

Matt Taylor said:
As recently as 2005 SWT was still using slam door stock.

2009, in fact (although there were no short platforms on the Lymington Branch).

yorksrob · 22 Feb 2012

You were told to join the correct part of the train, and if you didn't and there wasn't a platform, tough cheese :lol:

Some trains didn't have vestibule connections, so there wasn't always the option of walking down the train either.

Aictos · 22 Feb 2012

Wyvern said:
I seem to remember trains pulling up twice on the MML at, I think it was, Market Harborough.

How many stations have had their platforms shortened in the last forty odd years?

Accrington is one such station, I remember the platforms in the 1980s as they were then - Sadly in the middle or so of both platforms, it's been cut away shorting the platforms as a result although they retain the original platform ends.

Mike395 · 22 Feb 2012

yorksrob said:
You were told to join the correct part of the train, and if you didn't and there wasn't a platform, tough cheese

Some trains didn't have vestibule connections, so there wasn't always the option of walking down the train either.

Still occurs with EMT - a doubled-up 2x5 car Meridian only releases the doors of the front unit at Market Harborough and (I think?) Beeston due to short platforms

Again, no walkthrough so tough luck if you ignore the numerous announcements!

156450 · 22 Feb 2012

There is a station with a short platform between Loughborough and Derby i believe it's Long Eaton. It's only big enough for 3 HST vehicles as i mind being on one stopping there and it was announced that anyone wishing to alight needed to move to the front 3 coaches to alight. Quite amusing seeing the door lights illuminated for coaches not on the platform. The view from the door window on the coach i was in was good. I'd like to have seen someone alight as it was at a bridge with a road below. Some drop!

Oracle · 22 Feb 2012

In the late 1960s I used to walk down ro New Milton when on holiday. They used to have a 4-car + sometimes the 8-VAB 8001 or 2 x 4-cars. The trains used to either rely on the guard telling people to walk through to the front cars in the platform or if there were passengers who were unable to, because of luggae say, the driver would move the train forward and then stop.

Mutant Lemming · 22 Feb 2012

Another indictment of the dumbing down of our society in which we are no longer capable of looking after ourselves. Short platforms, long trains, no public address, doors you opened and closed yourselves - how on earth did anyone ever cope ? Quite simple really, you worked it all out for yourself instead of expecting to be spoonfed for every breathing step.
I'm surprised that the toliets on modern stock aren't equiped with devices to wipe people's behinds for them.

JoeGJ1984 · 22 Feb 2012

Mike395 said:
Still occurs with EMT - a doubled-up 2x5 car Meridian only releases the doors of the front unit at Market Harborough and (I think?) Beeston due to short platforms

Again, no walkthrough so tough luck if you ignore the numerous announcements!

Would there be announcements over PA/messages on the CIS at stations where you would board the train that goes to, say, Market Harborough to stop you going in the wrong unit and being unable to alight? What are they like at stations in that area? And do the conductors see that passengers are in the right part of the train?

And do the EMT HSTs have SDO?

yorksrob · 22 Feb 2012

yorksrob said:
You were told to join the correct part of the train, and if you didn't and there wasn't a platform, tough cheese

Some trains didn't have vestibule connections, so there wasn't always the option of walking down the train either.

Used to be the Thumpers on the Marshlink where this was a possibility in my younger days (although I always managed to get the correct part myself :lol:

)

fsmr · 22 Feb 2012

Loughborough is being lenghthened for the Olympics as the current practice of locking doors on coaches not on the platform on HST sets is deemed to be unaceptable for the visiting athletes and their camp staying at the Uni in the summer

yorksrob · 22 Feb 2012

fsmr said:
Loughborough is being lenghthened for the Olympics as the current practice of locking doors on coaches not on the platform on HST sets is deemed to be unaceptable for the visiting athletes and their camp staying at the Uni in the summer

I'd have thought they'd be ideally suited to sprint down the train :lol:

Eagle · 22 Feb 2012

yorksrob said:
I'd have thought they'd be ideally suited to sprint down the train

Only if they're hurdlers...

Tiny Tim · 22 Feb 2012

In the late 1970s I travelled daily between Avoncliffe and Trowbridge, I would cycle to Trowbridge in the mornings, as there were no early trains and after a long day working in a brewery (hic!) put my pushbike in the luggage van of a DMU for the return journey in the evenings. Avoncliffe Halt has a very short platform, so to allow me and my bike to alight the guard would operate a bell push for to the driver to pull forward. Presumably there was some sort of code for this operation, it was performed every working day for about a year just for me! The other advantage of being in the luggage van was that they only occasionally got round to selling me a ticket, there were no facilities to purchase one at this time of day at Trowbridge. Result!

PinzaC55 · 23 Feb 2012

In the mid - late 1980's I was a guard at King's Cross and we had a train about 07.00 from Peterborough to Kings Cross which was an HST and stopped at Sandy which (then) had a short platform. We'd go through the train before Sandy making sure anybody wanting to alight at Sandy was in the right coach but in practice most punters would be commuters boarding there so it wasn't a problem.

hairyhandedfool · 23 Feb 2012

Shimbleshanks said:
I've always wondered if a passenger would be justified in pulling the handle in such a situation or whether there would be a huge fuss, names taken, statements to the BT Plods etc etc....

Mike395 said:
Still occurs with EMT - a doubled-up 2x5 car Meridian only releases the doors of the front unit at Market Harborough and (I think?) Beeston due to short platforms

Again, no walkthrough so tough luck if you ignore the numerous announcements!

Last time I was on a double Meridian that stopped at Market Harborough (it was a few years ago now) they released doors on eight of the ten carriages. On that occasion the last door happened to be a staff only door and the announcement to move down was made as the train entered the platform. Sufficed to say a lady with luggage and kids didn't make it to the eighth coach in time, nevermind to a door she could actually open. So she pulled the pass. comm..

The guard walked down the outside of the train, boarded it (presumably at the staff door) and told the passenger to walk through the train to the door the guard had come from where she'd be let out. The guard then walked off the train, down the outside to the door she was at. The passenger couldn't get through the eighth coach though, so she pulled the pass. comm. again.

The guard came back down the outside of the train, boarded it and informed the passenger she'd have to be carried to Leicester and get a train back. Cue a ten minute argument in which fellow passengers joined in. At this point another member of staff (at the time I thought it was another guard, but it might have been the driver) walks down the side of the train, boards and states that unless the passenger sits down and goes to Leicester the train will be cancelled and everyone made to leave the train right there.

After a fifteen minute delay the passenger is finally allowed to leave the train by the staff door that was right there and the train left with everybody else onboard. It was a good job my connection at Leicester was thirty minutes!

Short Platforms - What used to happen?

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