Definately. IMO it's far more suitable than any Schengen type agreement for Britain.
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Scottish independence
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Definately. IMO it's far more suitable than any Schengen type agreement for Britain.
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Which is why an independent Scotland would be foolish to adopt anything else! However, the matter of currency is much more difficult...
Would you also agree that sovereign states need their own money?
Well, I would agree completely that the sovereign state of the United Kingdom needs its own money !
With regard to an independent Scotland, that would be for the citizens of that country to debate
With regard to an independent Scotland, that would be for the citizens of that country to debate
The real question is whether an independent Scotland would be allowed to keep the Great British Pound. I don't know if the rest of the UK would approve of that.
There would be no way to stop it.
All sorts of people use the dollar. It's just the way it is.
Of course the Scots would lose control over interest rates etc.
Graeme.Davis
Member
I would rather keep everything the same .
Butts
Veteran Member
At the risk of repeating myself The Irish Pound was tied to Sterling until 1979.....
And that was over fifty years after the formation of The Irish Free State :roll:
As you know, I'm not a President Salmond fan, but even I think he's stooped to new lows with this.
Now if that isn't a loaded question, I don't know what is. How about "Do you think that Scotland should leave the United Kingdom?"
It's about time we had an Edinburgh-based version of the Electoral Commission to sort it out. Both sides would probably object equally, but at least it would be fairer.
Alex Salmond said:
Now if that isn't a loaded question, I don't know what is. How about "Do you think that Scotland should leave the United Kingdom?"
It's about time we had an Edinburgh-based version of the Electoral Commission to sort it out. Both sides would probably object equally, but at least it would be fairer.
Butts
Veteran Member
How about.......
Do you think Scotland should leave the United Kingdom and become an Independent Country ?.........seemples
How about.......
Do you think Scotland should leave the United Kingdom and become an Independent Country ?.........seemples
Still contains the word "independent", which is the problem.
How about:
Do you think the UK should become independent from the EU?
Do you think the UK should leave the EU?
Actually, putting yes as an option can cause a slight bias. I can't remember the figures, but one psychologist once asked 2,000 people two different sets of questions. Half of them got, "Do you like my tie?" and the other half, "Do you think I should wear a different tie?". Yes won in both polls. :?
Butts
Veteran Member
How about substituting seperate for Independent ?
kylemore
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DaveNewcastle
Established Member
You remind me of the wording of the referrendum held in the northeast of England (sorry, I'm going back 10 years here), which sought to elicit a democratic view on regional devolution, and which was to be a trial for England's other regions.
The question was something like : "Do you want regional affairs to be decided by an elected regional assembly?"
The answers invited were, of course, "Yes" or "No".
The majority voting voted "No".
So they didn't get an elected regional assembly. They got an unelected regional assembly.
As had been agreed beforehand, if the majority answer was "no", then the other regions weren't asked.
I agree, that the outcome is all in the wording!
Butts
Veteran Member
Didn't the good folks of Hartlepool once elect a Monkey as Mayor - or was the poor creature put on trial or something.
Mind you a Monkey would be as good as half the elected politicians we currently have
Hydro
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I believe the good inhabitants of Hartlepool once hanged a monkey on suspicion of being a French spy or something. The football team is colloquially named the monkey hangers.
What he forgot to mention is that there are 2 1/4's = 6 "Effete Lions" :roll:
1 Lion rampant and 1 Harp forming the other quarters.
So who has the last laugh - you not us
Not on our version of the Royal Standard though. Two quarters Scottish, hence two lions rampant, vs one quarter English, three tame lions guarant.
No contest really. Although according to the nursery rhyme the "lion did batter the unicorn all over town"
It was a lie anyway - wasn't even sharp at the top
Moving back to Scottish Independence I believe we ought to extend the size of the Country to incorporate Northumberland , Westmorland and possibly Yorkshire as well - at least the Northern part.
These areas probably have more in common with Scotland than those south of the watford gap.
Under our greatest medieval king, David I, Scotland did once include Northumberland, Cumberland, Westmoreland, & Durham. The river Tees was the border for a while. There is still a considerable cultural divide crossing that river from affuent Conservative Richmondshire to working man's Sedgefield.
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Trog
Established Member
I had a Scottish friend who used to take great pleasure in unfavourably comparing our three effete lions with the lion rampant
He needs to be more careful as while the lower two lions are French and will thus probably be eager to collaborate with him if they think his Lion is bigger. The top English Lion is a Viking warrior and will likely go berserk if threatened.
Rollo, Maine and Aquitaine are the lions names.
According to QI, they're Leopards.
What's the problem? This is about Scotland becoming an independent country, or are you a Labourite with independence being a swear word?
90019
Established Member
Which it hopefully won't.
Prometheus
Member
I think it's a matter for the Scots and, as an Englishman with Scottish and Irish roots I will respect their decision, one way or another. If they decide to stay in the UK under 'Devo Max', where they have responsibility for their own taxation and spending, that's fine too.
Most English don't see much difference between calling themselves English or British, but the Scots have tremendous national pride (which I admire) and being British comes a distant second to being Scottish. I don't think most English people understand how differently the Scots see 'Britishness'.
Some people say that the English should also vote in any referendum to break up the UK but I think they are missing the point. This is for Scotland to decide. Whatever happens, I have no doubt that the English will continue to have great affection for the Scots and will support them in any transition to independent status if that is what they choose.
England is a part of the United Kingdom and if Scotland want's to take a decision that amounts to dissolving the UK why shouldn't all members of the UK have a say in the matter?
Butts
Veteran Member
Because Scotland made the original decision to join therefore the reverse applies.
kylemore
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Sure you can have a say but only the Scottish votes should decide one way or the other as regards Scottish Independence. What the English decide as regards their own country is of course their affair.
Are you seriously saying that if a massive majority of English voters wish the arrangement to say the same then that should outweigh an internal Scottish vote for independence and indepedence should be denied - if neccessary at the point of bayonets?
The current Scottish parliament is not the successor to the Scottish Parliament that entered the union. That parliament ceased to exist separately when Scotland entered the union with England and it became the Parliament of Great Britain. The UK parliament and not the current devolved administration is the successor to the original Scottish Parliament.
kylemore
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And this means what exactly?
That a democratic referendum held by the present Scottish Parliament which democratically supports Independence can be ignored because of a technicality?
That way lies serious danger, because "Force" starts to come into play - you would'nt expect countries in Africa or the ex Soviet Union who had expressed a clear democratic will for independence only for this democratic will to be ignored to take it lying down, would you? You would presumably then support them in their armed struggle against the tyrant - is that what you want for the countries of the British Isles - we've been through that before and it was'nt pretty!
The current Scottish parliament simply has power devovled to it from the UK parliament. The UK parliament could if just abolish it if they wanted to although I doubt they ever would. If the Scottish Parliament just go ahead and hold a referendum, it would not be binding on the UK government. The best plan would be for the Scottish parliament to agree with the UK government on any referendum first. If the UK government agree with the terms of the referendum and that it will be legally binding then there will be no doubt over what the result will be should the people vote for independence. A legally binding referendum would have to be legislated by the UK parliament.
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I don't recall that Scottish people got the choice (referandum) when the Union was pushed onto them. Why should English people have a say in them wishing to leaving it!
Pometheus makes fair point. As a Scot I have experienced the need to state that "No. I am not English" nwhen going through customs, all over the place in my travels. English people never have to question being asked, be it English or British. In most parts of the World that means the same thing.
Another point! Why is it that English people can move to Scotland and still vote for the same political parties as if they were still in England, but Scots living in England, as well as Welsh and Northern Irish, cannot vote for their 'National' parties, in this case the SNP. Afterall, we are told that we are all 'One' Country!
Whether you are for or against Independence there are many anomalies that should be addressed. Why has it taken over 300 years to even be discussed!
Pometheus makes fair point. As a Scot I have experienced the need to state that "No. I am not English" nwhen going through customs, all over the place in my travels. English people never have to question being asked, be it English or British. In most parts of the World that means the same thing.
Another point! Why is it that English people can move to Scotland and still vote for the same political parties as if they were still in England, but Scots living in England, as well as Welsh and Northern Irish, cannot vote for their 'National' parties, in this case the SNP. Afterall, we are told that we are all 'One' Country!
Whether you are for or against Independence there are many anomalies that should be addressed. Why has it taken over 300 years to even be discussed!
The SNP and Plaid Cymru are not prohibited from fielding candidates in English constituencies. It's unlikely that any of them would win a seat in England though.
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