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Please be reminded of the forum rules regarding a friendly environment. No one wants to see debate stifled, and robust discussions are absolutely fine, but please don't cross the line into being disrepectful, impolite or rude. Please remember that attacking the argument is fine, but attacking...

This is not the place for a discussion on aviation. Please stick to the topic.

Once again, I have had to delete some off topic posts despite my last message here. My patience is beginning to wear a bit thin. Do not discuss other site members, or former members, in this thread.

I've deleted a few recent off topic posts. Please stay on topic from this point on. Thanks.

I've deleted a few posts that are off topic for this thread. I'd like to remind all contributors at this point that if anyone has any concerns about a post being in breach of the forum rules, they should report it so that forum staff can take a look at it.

I could be wrong, but I think that there is at least an element in new seat design that flows from research into good posture and preventing the onset of back problems by providing a firm and supportive seat. My complaints are very much focused on the comfort of the seats, but maybe it's...

Seating and comfort is very subjective. It has to eb given the different shapes and sizes involved, let alone our different ideas of what is comfortable and what's not. Amazingly, I understand that there are some people who find Voyagers pleasant :wink: All we can do, really, is to wait and see!

It would have to be a very uncomfortable seat and train for me to choose a coach instead, yes :lol: I wouldn't rule it out completely, though, the way things are going!

That's your choice. I would probably still use IEP's even if I do find them uncomfortable. The point is I'll probably use them less, and maybe a lot less, than if I didn't.

So will I! I make no comment on the IEP itself, as I haven't experienced it, I'm just commenting on things in general. I already avoid Voyagers because I find them uncomfortable. I'll give the IEP a try, certainly, but given where I live, if I don't like it then it will be difficult to avoid...

Comfort on long distance journeys is important to me. Like Yorkie, if I don't find the travelling environment a comfortable place, then I'm far more likely either to not travel at all, or to choose an alternative means of getting there. For those who say it's good to pack in more seats at any...

I am in total agreement with you! As bay table would be OK. I find the bigger tables, finding or not, simply take up too much room. They can also lead to arguments as one person will usually try to take up other people's space.

I totally agree. I travel on them regularly, and they do need a fair bit of attention, despite them still being amongst my favourite units to travel on. With the franchise up for renewal soon, I really can't see ATW spending any money. They don't like doing that at the best of times.

The Cardiff to Manchester services can be very popular, and in my view they deserve four or five carriages rather than tow or three, with a small first class section. I hope this is recognised in the new franchise.

Even if it were possible, and I don't know the answer to that one, ATW don't like spending money if they don't have to.

This is true. I do think Dan has a point about turn around times in Manchester, though. Obviously, there are many factors at play with that, pathing, platform availability, a lack of spare stock and so on, but the result is that there isn't time to clean the toilets or empty the bins. Having a...

I don't think traditional compartments are ever going to be making a comeback, but maybe there is some potential for semi compartments with transparent walls. I think saloon doors are the way forward for non inter city type routes, though I personally prefer vestibules.

I have to say that I thought the XC HST I caught from Newcastle to the south west a few years ago was a better experience all round than a GWR HST. I was gutted on my last trip to Plymouth that having booked a train that should have been an HST to return to Bristol, a Voyager turned up instead.

The economics don't work, and will probably never work. The reasons brought up in this thread are all factors.

The earliest railway carriages were heavily influence by the design of stage coaches and other horse drawn carriages, hence the provision of face to face seating. Airline style seating only seems to have been brought in in recent times, and this might, in part at least, be reflective of changes...