Leicester -> London. Many Questions

Quicksilver · 2 Jun 2009

Hi there,
We are thinking of relocating to Leicester. I will need to travel to London 3 weekdays, more or less every week. Occasionally more than 3. I shall need to arrive in London around 9.00 and leave around 19.00.

Is the cheapest way to do this to buy an annual season ticket? I did look at the possibility of reserving my days in advance, as I went along, but even assuming I managed to get hold of the cheapest available fare every time, the small difference in price, didn't seem to be worth all the extra hassle. But perhaps the experts have a better alternative?

If I did buy a season ticket, is there a way of reserving a seat for my journeys? East Midlands Trains apparently used to offer reserved seating for Season ticket holders, but have stopped due to abuse of the system. I wondered if there was a way around this? Obviously not for an entire year, but if I asked them to do a week/month at a time would they do this? Standing every day would not be fun.

Which leads me to my final question. How busy are these services? Will I be fighting for a seat at Leicester, or should I be OK? My concern is that if as a regular traveller I can't book a seat, I'll lose out to those making occasional journeys, who can reserve.

Any help gratefully received

RailUK Forums

clagmonster · 2 Jun 2009

For the times you require, the cheapes ticket conbination on daily walk up tickets would be a standard open single in the morning, priced at £63, and a supersaver single (valid leavin St Pancras at or after 18:59) in the evening, priced at £47. This comes to a total of £110 per day. Aternatively, looking at 21 August, which is as far as booking are open, you could get an advance single on the 18:55 from St Pancras for £30, which would bring the total to £93. These advance singles come on sale roughly 12 weeks in advance.
A weekly season would cost £201.10, so if you travel 3 times in a week, which you say you will, you will save money.
A monthly season would cost £696.20.
An annual season would cost £7252.
If you travel beyond St Pancras, you can get travelcard seasons as well, which could save you a fair amount.

Quicksilver · 2 Jun 2009

Thanks for that. I actually need to go to Blackfriars, but I believe that costs the same, if I used First Capital Connect.

hairyhandedfool · 3 Jun 2009

Quicksilver said:
Thanks for that. I actually need to go to Blackfriars, but I believe that costs the same, if I used First Capital Connect.

NOOOOOOO!

A season ticket from Leicester to London will only get you to St Pancras. You will need a Travelcard (or daily single/return tickets) to get to Blackfriars from St Pancras. The Leicester to All Zones weekly travelcard is just £11.40 more than the London Terminals ticket. Day returns between St Pancras and Blackfriars ('Not Underground') are £3.90 each.

'London Terminals' tickets are NOT valid for any journey which passes through or ends/starts at Farringdon station.

Quicksilver · 3 Jun 2009

OK. So, is possible to purchase an annual season ticket from Leicester through to Blackfriars?
And, this maybe a Rookie question, why does nationalrail.co.uk, show season tickets between LEI and STP, and LEI -> BFR as being the same price?

First class · 3 Jun 2009

Because St. Pancras and Blackfriars are part of 'London Terminals'.

Your ticket would read LEICESTER TO LONDON TERMINALS.

Does not actually mean you can use it to interchange between them.

If there's somewhere you can change trains before you arrive at London Stp like Luton and manage to find a valid National Rail route to Blackfriars that is fine. But I am not sure if changing at Luton is:

a) Going to help you, because I don't know if valid routes exist to Blackfriars on your season ticket
b) Whether your train is going to stop there

Quicksilver · 3 Jun 2009

Hmmm, one might be tempted to suggest that that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...

Even if it were possible to do change trains, I wouldn't want to. Part of the reason for relocating to Leicester, is that it offers such a fast service into London. To start faffing around changing trains would make this much less appealing. It seems outrageous to me, that if paying over £7000 a year for a ticket, I can't use it to go to whichever London Terminal I like (it's not even as though I'd need to use the Tube)

First class · 3 Jun 2009

The point is you can go to whatever terminal you want - providing you can get there via a valid route. You can't get to some terminals purely because you would have to go a very, very long way round to get there For example, to get to Euston from Leicester, you would have to go to Nuneaton and change for a train to London Euston. That's a very long way round from getting a direct train to London. Hence why you're not allowed to do that on your ticket.

If you wouldn't need to use the tube, how do you propose getting to London Blackfriars from Leicester without changing?

Quicksilver · 3 Jun 2009

Ok point taken on the Leicester to Euston thing.
From Leicester to St Pancras, then on First Capital Connect to Blackfriars. That's all National Rail isn't it? And it surely must be the easiest (and perhaps therefore the most valid) route.

John @ home · 4 Jun 2009

Quicksilver said:
From Leicester to St Pancras, then on First Capital Connect to Blackfriars. That's all National Rail isn't it? And it surely must be the easiest (and perhaps therefore the most valid) route.

Shortest, yes, but unfortunately not valid with a ticket from north of Bedford to London Terminals.

National Fares Manual said:
Fares to London stations served by trains on First Capital Connects Thameslink route

Please make sure that your customers understand that London Terminals fares/tickets are not valid for travel to Farringdon or St Pancras International from the South. Similarly from the North, London Terminals fares/tickets are not valid to Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle.

There is a destination London Thameslink which allows travel to Blackfriars from Bedford and stations to the south. But unfortunately that doesn't help you from Leicester.

John

Quicksilver · 4 Jun 2009

Well I'm glad that's so transparent!

So is the cheapest way then to buy an annual season ticked Leicester -> STP and then STP -> Blackfriars? Since I'll only be travelling three days a week, is an annual ticket still the cheapest option for the Cross London portion?

John @ home · 4 Jun 2009

Quicksilver said:
is the cheapest way then to buy an annual season ticked Leicester -> STP and then STP -> Blackfriars? Since I'll only be travelling three days a week, is an annual ticket still the cheapest option for the Cross London portion?

Season ticket 12 months: Leicester - Zone R1256 Zones £7,856.

or

Season ticket 12 months: Leicester - London Terminals £7,252.
plus Season ticket 12 months: Kings Cross Und - Zone R12* Zones £1,032.
Total £8,284

or

Season ticket 12 months: Leicester - London Terminals £7,252.
plus 2 journeys x 3 days x 46 weeks x £1.60 pay-as-you-go Oyster fare £441.60
Total £7,693.60

So it looks as if you may be best using pay-as-you-go Oyster.

One other point: if you buy your London - Leicester ticket in London it should be issued as a Gold Card giving you one third off the fare for off-peak journeys wholly within London and the South-East (eg. south of Bedford) for you and travelling companions and cheap First Class upgrades for these journeys. There is no extra cost. See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/season_tickets/goldcard.html If you buy the ticket in Leicester, it is printed on different ticketing stock and you don't get these benefits.

John

hairyhandedfool · 4 Jun 2009

The season ticket price for St Pancras to Blackfriars (Not Underground) is £11.60 a week, £464 a year. The difference between a yearly point to point ticket and a travelcard from Leicester is £604, but it is only £11.40 for a week! Now there is logic!!!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

John @ home said:
One other point: if you buy your London - Leicester ticket in London it should be issued as a Gold Card giving you one third off the fare for off-peak journeys wholly within London and the South-East (eg. south of Bedford) for you and travelling companions and cheap First Class upgrades for these journeys. There is no extra cost. See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/season_tickets/goldcard.html

You can also purchase a seperate Network railcard (valid for one year) for another person at the special price of £1 at any point during your goldcard's validity.

John @ home · 4 Jun 2009

stethomson said:
The point is you can go to whatever terminal you want - providing you can get there via a valid route. You can't get to some terminals purely because you would have to go a very, very long way round to get there For example, to get to Euston from Leicester, you would have to go to Nuneaton and change for a train to London Euston. That's a very long way round from getting a direct train to London. Hence why you're not allowed to do that on your ticket.

The above point is valid as far as it goes, but there are ways of gaining additional flexibility at no extra cost. For example, instead of buying a 12-month season ticket from London to Leicester at £7,252, buy a 12-month season ticket from London to Oakham at £7,252.

The Leicester ticket is valid from St Pancras only. The Oakham ticket is also valid from St Pancras, via Leicester or via Corby. In addition the Oakham ticket is valid from Kings Cross via Stevenage and Peterborough, and also from Liverpool Street via Cambridge and Peterborough.

As a season ticket, it can be used at any time on any part of these routes, for example for a weekend journey between Leicester and Cambridge.

John

Quicksilver · 4 Jun 2009

John, Thanks for all that info, especially about the Oakham same price for increased flexibility trick. (It does rather beg the question if you can build all that in for no extra cost, why on earth does STP->BFR cost so much). Also thanks for the gold card info too, I currently live in Redhill, and use the GC with my family alot. Good to know we can hang on to it.

I am a little confused now though. From what you have all said, I think a point to point STP -> BFR only season ticket is the cheapest way of adding in that part. (it seems to be £7252 + £464, which is £7716 - This is marginally more expensive than your oyster suggestion, but I can't guarantee only 3 days in London, sometimes I may have to do more.) I don't really need to travel anywhere else, so don't need any underground options. Any deviations from my proposed route can be reclaimed through expenses.

Finally, do you have any idea about whether it is possible to book seat reservations on the LEI -> STP leg as season ticket holder.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.

hairyhandedfool · 5 Jun 2009

Quicksilver said:
...Finally, do you have any idea about whether it is possible to book seat reservations on the LEI -> STP leg as season ticket holder.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.

I honestly couldn't say if it is allowed or not, but I'd say that, assuming the staff are the same as five years ago, Blackfriars or even City booking offices will probably book them if you ask nicely!

Hindumanas · 22 Feb 2010

John @ home said:
The above point is valid as far as it goes, but there are ways of gaining additional flexibility at no extra cost. For example, instead of buying a 12-month season ticket from London to Leicester at £7,252, buy a 12-month season ticket from London to Oakham at £7,252.

The Leicester ticket is valid from St Pancras only. The Oakham ticket is also valid from St Pancras, via Leicester or via Corby. In addition the Oakham ticket is valid from Kings Cross via Stevenage and Peterborough, and also from Liverpool Street via Cambridge and Peterborough.

As a season ticket, it can be used at any time on any part of these routes, for example for a weekend journey between Leicester and Cambridge.

John

I to will be travelling to London (central) on a daily basis.
Are you saying that I can go to the Leicester ticket office and buy the Oakham ticket (even though I live in Leicester)?

A60K · 22 Feb 2010

Yes you can - the entire National Fares Manual is networked across all stations, so give or take a few odd fares any ticket can (and must be) issued from anywhere as requested by the customer.

Hindumanas · 22 Feb 2010

A60K said:
Yes you can - the entire National Fares Manual is networked across all stations, so give or take a few odd fares any ticket can (and must be) issued from anywhere as requested by the customer.

For a monthly ticket (using the EastMidland website):
STANDARD MONTHLY
Oakham-
London Terminals This ticket allows travel on any permitted route. view £685.10

I can use the Leicster to St.Pancreas line aswell as Kings Cross and Liverpool Street (if needed).?

I'm assuming someone coming to Oakham, can get off at Leicester and then catch a Leicester to St. Pancreas train?

A60K · 22 Feb 2010

Absolutely - it's valid for unlimited travel on any of the permitted routes between Oakham and London Terminals, and for unrestricted break of journey, changing trains, starting and ending short of any description.

If you wished, you could use it for a day trip between Finsbury Park and Stevenage, for example.

John @ home · 22 Feb 2010

Hindumanas said:
I to will be travelling to London (central) on a daily basis.
Are you saying that I can go to the Leicester ticket office and buy the Oakham ticket (even though I live in Leicester)?

Yes, but if I were travelling daily from Leicester to London, and buying an annual Oakham - London ticket for the additional route flaxibility at the same price, I would buy it in London in order to get the free Gold Card and £1 Network Card. See post number 12 above.

If you are buying for a period of less than 12 months, the Gold Card is not offered and you should be able to buy at any staffed ticket office on National Rail, including Leicester. You can even buy an Oakham - London season ticket online here.

Note that only the Oakham - London route Any Permitted ticket is valid at Leicester. The cheaper route Peterborough ticket is not.

Leicester -> London. Many Questions

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