No + on ticket involving London Underground.

dvboy · 22 Dec 2011

Hello

I have purchased an Off Peak Return ticket from Coventry-Gatwick Airport via Kensington Olympia on 13th January returning 15th January

The return journey itinerary includes a leg on London Underground Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone, but my ticket doesn't have a + on it to show it is valid on LU.

Any thoughts? Will my ticket be accepted on LU?

Itinerary as per email from RSH:

Return journey: 15 Jan 2012
departs Gatwick Airport at 14:23 travel by Train service provider Southern Railways to station Clapham Junction arrives 15:00 ( seats reserved: Coach: * Seats: *** )
departs Clapham Junction at 15:15 travel by Train service provider London Overground to station Willesden Junction arrives 15:35
departs Willesden Junction at 15:46 travel by London Underground to station Harrow And Wealdstone arrives at 16:01
departs Harrow And Wealdstone at 16:06 travel by Train service provider London Midland to station Watford Junction arrives 16:12
departs Watford Junction at 16:32 travel by Train service provider Virgin Trains to station Coventry arrives 17:20 ( seats reserved: Coach: A Seats: 04 )

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wintonian · 22 Dec 2011

dvboy said:
Hello

I have purchased an Off Peak Return ticket from Coventry-Gatwick Airport via Kensington Olympia on 13th January returning 15th January

The return journey itinerary includes a leg on London Underground Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone, but my ticket doesn't have a + on it to show it is valid on LU.

Any thoughts? Will my ticket be accepted on LU?

Itinerary as per email from RSH:

As that ticket is not valid via London terminals you won't get a cross London transfer included.

I can only assume that there must be engineering works taking place between Willesden Junction and Harrow And Wealdstone in which case London Underground may have agreed to accept tickets.

I can't look it up on southern website to see if this is the case or not as their engineering works page doesn't exist.

dzug2 · 22 Dec 2011

The + indicates it is valid on the underground between two London terminals.

Your journey does not involve London terminals at all so the + is unnecessary. The ticket is valid in line with your itinerary. It just happens to be the quickest connection at the time you are travelling. If you waited for the next London Overground service you would miss the Coventry train

34D · 22 Dec 2011

wintonian said:
As that ticket is not valid via London terminals you won't get a cross London transfer included.

I can only assume that there must be engineering works taking place between Willesden Junction and Harrow And Wealdstone in which case London Underground may have agreed to accept tickets.

I can't look it up on southern website to see if this is the case or not as their engineering works page doesn't exist.

Incorrect - the journey is on an open air stretch of the DC lines, that are shared by London Overground 378s and the Bakerloo line stock. Tickets are interchangeable

However it is a stupid itinery. Instead of 15:00 CLJ to Willesden wait 5 mins and get the 15:05 from CLJ p17 direct to Watford Jct (arr 15:44).

wintonian · 22 Dec 2011

34D said:
Incorrect - the journey is on an open air stretch of the DC lines, that are shared by London Overground 378s and the Bakerloo line stock. Tickets are interchangeable

However it is a stupid itinery

Never done it so didn't know that.

34D · 22 Dec 2011

wintonian said:
Never done it so didn't know that.

Someone will perhaps be along with a list of tube journeys where national rail tickets are valid on LU - finsbury park-kings cross is one, as is Barking to Upminster, and I think Stratford to Canning Town (though not 100% sure how the North Woolwich closure affected that)

wintonian · 22 Dec 2011

34D said:
Someone will perhaps be along with a list of tube journeys where national rail tickets are valid on LU - finsbury park-kings cross is one, as is Barking to Upminster, and I think Stratford to Canning Town (though not 100% sure how the North Woolwich closure affected that)

I know you can on the Metropolitan from the north to Baker Street(?) but I can never remember where the others are.

sheff1 · 22 Dec 2011

34D said:
However it is a stupid itinery. Instead of 15:00 CLJ to Willesden wait 5 mins and get the 15:05 from CLJ p17 direct to Watford Jct (arr 15:44).

5 minutes isn't a valid connection at CLJ. However, an able bodied person should make it without difficulty.

As the ticket is an Off Peak then there is no problem in taking the 1505 if the OP does make it.

yorkie · 22 Dec 2011

dvboy said:
The return journey itinerary includes a leg on London Underground Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone, but my ticket doesn't have a + on it to show it is valid on LU.

There is some confusion here; a "+" is not needed for the ticket to be valid between Willesden Jn and Harrow & Wealdstone. This is a joint route with London Underground trains and London Overground (National Rail) trains, and the route is avoiding London Terminals and no cross-London transfer is required for this journey.

You will not pass through any barriers at Harrow & Wealdstone and I don't think you will at Willesden Jn either.

If you wish to excess your ticket to "+Any Permitted" for the return leg only, the price is £8.70. The easiest way to do this journey is probably to take a Southern train (Gatwick Express route) to Victoria, and then Victoria Line (LU) from Victoria to Euston, and Virgin Trains from Euston to Coventry. Journey planners will have you allowing 45 mins for the connection but it can be done in 20-25 if you're quick.

dvboy · 22 Dec 2011

Thanks to all who helped to clarify.

Excess is an option but I am in no rush to get back. I specifically looked for the via Kensington Olympia ticket for the cost, as it's a journey I've done before to stations on the Brighton Line, but never involved the Undergound.

In the past I've had a route Kensington Olympia ticket accepted via Euston and Victoria as the Southern Watford-Clapham service was cancelled. Gate staff all along my revised route were all aware there had been a cancellation, which I was very surprised.

I booked that specific train as it goes through to Wolverhampton (I'm splitting with my season ticket). Also, I didn't get a reservation coupon for Watford-Coventry, though there's one on the itinerary.

34D · 23 Dec 2011

sheff1 said:
5 minutes isn't a valid connection at CLJ. However, an able bodied person should make it without difficulty.

As the ticket is an Off Peak then there is no problem in taking the 1505 if the OP does make it.

I apologise, I misread slightly. He arrives at CLJ at 15:00 - there are LO trains at 15:00 and 15:15 - if you can get to plat 17 then the 15:05 Southern service would be a recommended move.

hairyhandedfool · 23 Dec 2011

dvboy said:
....The return journey itinerary includes a leg on London Underground Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone, but my ticket doesn't have a + on it to show it is valid on LU.

Any thoughts? Will my ticket be accepted on LU?....

Harrow and Wealdstone to Queens Park is an interavailable route, in otherwords, National Rail tickets are valid on London Underground services and London Underground tickets are valid on National Rail services.

You will have no issues when using your ticket for that journey.

OwlMan · 23 Dec 2011

Details of joint stations are interavailable services attached

wintonian · 23 Dec 2011

collybs said:
Details of joint stations are interavailable services attached

Thanks I'll save that somewhere.

dvboy · 28 Dec 2011

Thanks for all your help.

No + on ticket involving London Underground.

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