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Southern's "the key" smartcard now allows loading of some singles & returns

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tsr

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This news from Southern seems rather to have got lost in the midst of yesterday's massive disruption due to a person hit by a train at South Croydon, but it is nonetheless extremely interesting, and naturally offers a huge number of extra uses for the key. :D

In short, Anytime & Off-Peak Day tickets are now available to load onto the key - singles & returns. I have yet to investigate exactly which routes are available, but many special smartcard fares seem to have been set (according to brfares.com).

The full article text is pasted below:

Single and return tickets have arrived on Southern’s industry leading smartcard - the key - meaning passengers can now use the card for so much more than before.

Following hot on the heels of the introduction of annual seasons on the card, single and return tickets mean passengers can now use the card to make one-off journeys for exciting things like days out, visiting friends and family or simply making a journey to the shops!

Southern’s Head of Retail Development, Riz Wahid said: “We’re delighted to add yet another suite of tickets to the key, giving our passengers much more choice about the tickets they buy. We’re busy planning more exciting developments which will offer more flexibility, as well as expanding the key into London.”

The key, which uses smartcard technology as an alternative to paper tickets, makes it easier and quicker for passengers to buy tickets.

The smartcard system allows passengers to purchase tickets online or via ticket machines at Southern stations and collect and travel in a one touch transaction. They can store and manage ticket products through their personal online account.

Put simply, the benefits of the key are:

  • Save time – no need to queue for tickets or wait for them to be posted to you.
  • Easy to use – simply touch in and out at stations.
  • Secure – your purchases are protected if your card is lost or stolen.
  • Convenient – load your ticket and pass through the gate in one touch.
  • Easy to buy – purchase tickets online or at self-service ticket machines at the station.
  • Environmentally friendly –no more paper tickets that fade or jam.

The key is available to passengers travelling from the majority of Southern stations outside the London zone boundaries.

Tickets currently available on the key are:

  • Anytime Day Singles
  • Anytime Day Returns
  • Off-Peak Day Singles
  • Off-Peak Day Returns
  • Annual Season Tickets
  • Monthly Season Tickets
  • Weekly Season Tickets

Customers wishing to find out more and apply for the key can visit southernrailway.com/thekey.

I can't see that this news has previously been posted on these forums - forgive me if I'm wrong!
 
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bicbasher

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A quick look at Eastbourne to Bexhill shows the same price for The Key day tickets as with a paper ticket.
 

kieron

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A quick look at Eastbourne to Bexhill shows the same price for The Key day tickets as with a paper ticket.
Well, it is unless a Smart 1st Off-Peak Return is actually what its name suggests.

What surprises me is the fact that they don't offer a paper gold card to people buying annual season tickets, given that TfL do. I'm sure it's more complicated and expensive than it sounds, though.
 

Muzer

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I might grab one of these, on the assumption that it'll eventually reach Southampton. Always good to have your options open.

Thinking about it, it just occurred to me that I have no idea if you can use railcards on SWT ITSO. I should give it a go next time I'm at a station. Just a huge pain you can't buy SWT ITSO tickets online AFAICT, just at a TVM, or even look at your ticket status online.
 

Tom

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I might grab one of these, on the assumption that it'll eventually reach Southampton. Always good to have your options open.
All ITSOs on the railway network should be interoperable with each other eventually so I wouldn't worry about which you get ...

Thinking about it, it just occurred to me that I have no idea if you can use railcards on SWT ITSO.
You can.

I should give it a go next time I'm at a station. Just a huge pain you can't buy SWT ITSO tickets online AFAICT, just at a TVM, or even look at your ticket status online.
The ticket rollout officially for SWT is still only for seasons. And you can buy these online.
 

radamfi

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I got a single from Lewes to Haywards Heath on a Southern Key card today. Buying and loading the ticket onto the card at the TVM at Lewes was easy enough. I tapped in the standalone reader outside the ticket barrier and it said "Journey Started" (or something like that). The barriers were open but I thought I had better tap it just in case and it said "Seek Assistance". I thought that was because I had tapped in using the standalone reader so didn't think anything of it.

When I got off at Haywards Heath and tapped in at the manned barrier it also said "Seek Assistance". The barrier man then took the ticket to the TVM and saw that it had a Lewes to Haywards Heath single on it. He asked me when I got it and I said half an hour ago at Lewes station. He could see the date was right so he let me through without any more ado.

So not entirely successful! What caused that to go wrong? Perhaps tapping on the standalone reader followed by the barrier screwed it up?

Incidentally, the ticket office at Haywards Heath was already shut at 1700. What is happening with Southern ticket office staffing these days? Three Bridges ticket is hardly ever open after 1900 despite advertised opening hours until 2215.
 
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andrewkeith5

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Good idea :) Shame there don't appear to be any Super Off Peaks though :( my trips to London would cost almost twice as much if I did them with a smartcard....
 

Muzer

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I got a single from Lewes to Haywards Heath on a Southern Key card today. Buying and loading the ticket onto the card at the TVM at Lewes was easy enough. I tapped in the standalone reader outside the ticket barrier and it said "Journey Started" (or something like that). The barriers were open but I thought I had better tap it just in case and it said "Seek Assistance". I thought that was because I had tapped in using the standalone reader so didn't think anything of it.

When I got off at Haywards Heath and tapped in at the manned barrier it also said "Seek Assistance". The barrier man then took the ticket to the TVM and saw that it had a Lewes to Haywards Heath single on it. He asked me when I got it and I said half an hour ago at Lewes station. He could see the date was right so he let me through without any more ado.

So not entirely successful! What caused that to go wrong? Perhaps tapping on the standalone reader followed by the barrier screwed it up?

Incidentally, the ticket office at Haywards Heath was already shut at 1700. What is happening with Southern ticket office staffing these days? Three Bridges ticket is hardly ever open after 1900 despite advertised opening hours until 2215.
Probably - the general rule is to tap in once and once only.
 

johnnycache

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i've tried few journeys on the Southern website selecting single journeys for 1000 04 September and choosing "only fares that can be loaded onto an ITSO smartcard"

I was expecting fares to be available only where
1) both origin and destination are Southern operated stations
2) where neither origin nor destination station accepts Oyster

Here are a few results some surprising

Brighton (SN) Chichester (SN) -
£12.10 smart anytime standard day single
£18.10 smart anytime first day single
Brighton (SN) Havant (SW) -
£12.90 smart anytime standard day single
£19.30 smart anytime first day single
Brighton (SN) Fareham (SW) -
£14.80 smart off-peak standard day single
£14.90 smart anytime standard day single
£22.30 smart anytime first day single
Brighton (SN) Southampton Central (SW) -
no smartcard fares available
Brighton (SN) Salisbury (SW) -
no smartcard fares available

nb Salisbury corrected to SW
 
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Muzer

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Some of those are indeed surprising. I'm not surprised it doesn't go to Soton or Salisbury (!!) though. I'm PRETTY sure you can't even get walk-up fares on a Stagecoach Smart card for Southampton to Salisbury because it passes through GW stations and GW trains might be used on the route. Salisbury is a SW station, not a GW one.

(Admittedly there IS ITSO equipment at both those stations but I expect it's Stagecoach Smart Only for the minute).
 
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tsr

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I'm PRETTY sure you can't even get walk-up fares on a Stagecoach Smart card for Southampton to Salisbury because it passes through GW stations and GW trains might be used on the route. Salisbury is a SW station, not a GW one.

It seems it doesn't matter if the ticket sold can be used on an FGW train, in principle. For example, smartcard fares are available for all trains between Gatwick Airport & Reigate, with no apparent operator restrictions on the ticket which is loaded onto your key. This means you could use FGW or Southern (or indeed FCC, for part of your journey, if travelling in the peak(s)!) services. Southern's Customer Services do not appear to dispute this when asked, although I have no written evidence to explicitly say so.
 
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Muzer

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I think in some particular areas (Upwey to Weymouth for example) FGW have a specific agreement in place to accept Stagecoach Smart cards (presumably without being able to check for a valid ticket) - same with CrossCountry between Bournemouth and Basingstoke (at least, I've read this agreement exists - I don't know how much trouble you'd have with guards in practice). Perhaps this also applies between Gatwick Airport and Reigate with the other operators accepting The Key?
 

greatkingrat

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It is no different to the early days of Oyster, when Oyster seasons could be used on NR services, despite very few of them having the means to read the ticket.
 

johnnycache

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With Southern there are arrangements in place with FCC and FGW so where a smart ticket is available for purchase it can be used on any operator

In some cases card readers have been supplied

In other cases the card is accepted even though it cannot be read

My understanding is that the key is only available where origin and destination are both Southern stations so if a ticket can be purchased for a journey to or from a station operated by another TOC that is an error
 

mattdickinson

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With Southern there are arrangements in place with FCC and FGW so where a smart ticket is available for purchase it can be used on any operator

In some cases card readers have been supplied

In other cases the card is accepted even though it cannot be read

My understanding is that the key is only available where origin and destination are both Southern stations so if a ticket can be purchased for a journey to or from a station operated by another TOC that is an error

The Southern TVMs will actually let you buy tickets entirely on other smartcard schemes.

Examples are Staines to Datchet and Mansfield to Mansfield Woodhouse singles.
 

Greeby

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I got a single from Lewes to Haywards Heath on a Southern Key card today. Buying and loading the ticket onto the card at the TVM at Lewes was easy enough. I tapped in the standalone reader outside the ticket barrier and it said "Journey Started" (or something like that). The barriers were open but I thought I had better tap it just in case and it said "Seek Assistance". I thought that was because I had tapped in using the standalone reader so didn't think anything of it.

When I got off at Haywards Heath and tapped in at the manned barrier it also said "Seek Assistance". The barrier man then took the ticket to the TVM and saw that it had a Lewes to Haywards Heath single on it. He asked me when I got it and I said half an hour ago at Lewes station. He could see the date was right so he let me through without any more ado.

So not entirely successful! What caused that to go wrong? Perhaps tapping on the standalone reader followed by the barrier screwed it up?

Incidentally, the ticket office at Haywards Heath was already shut at 1700. What is happening with Southern ticket office staffing these days? Three Bridges ticket is hardly ever open after 1900 despite advertised opening hours until 2215.

That is what these smartcards are for, in the TOC's eyes. To finally get rid of us booking office staff. Where Operations requires dispatch staff, they'll still be there. But the rest of us are not going to be kept if we're not bringing in money.
 

sarahj

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I'm dreading them becoming to popular. When you have the 15 mins from East Croydon to Gatwick, then the 10 mins from Gatwick to the Heath to check up to 12 cars of passengers, your doing a quick scan of tickets esp to check the pass is in the correct coach (on the splitters). Having to scan a coach load of keys will just take forever. At the moment, with just the odd one or two its doable.
 

cyclebytrain

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If you don't mind me asking, what is it about scanning the keys that takes so much longer than dealing with a paper ticket? Is it something specific, or just that everything takes a fraction longer and it all adds up?
 

Muzer

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I think he's referring to the fact that on a busy train, you can walk up the carriage, glancing at the text of the tickets some people will helpfully be holding up (date and to/from locations) and in most cases be able to tell immediately that the ticket is valid. Scanning takes a few seconds longer *per person*, which as you say, presumably adds up. I'm not a guard, though.
 

sheff1

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I think he's referring to the fact that on a busy train, you can walk up the carriage, glancing at the text of the tickets some people will helpfully be holding up (date and to/from locations) and in most cases be able to tell immediately that the ticket is valid. Scanning takes a few seconds longer *per person*, which as you say, presumably adds up. I'm not a guard, though.

I imagine that is exactly it. The new machines issued to conductors on the Sheffield Supertram require all National Bus Passes to be scanned. The time taken to scan four passengers in one bay individually is noticeably longer than the old system where the conductor just pressed a button on their machine four times whilst moving on to the next bay of seats. The extra time adds up, so that conductors are far less likely to get through between stops than they were before.

Stagecoach have begun to encourage an increase in take up of smartcards for non-concessionary passengers. If they are successful, even more passengers will go unchecked before alighting with a corresponding decease in fares collected (there are no ticket issuing facilities at tram stops)
 

sarahj

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I think he's referring to the fact that on a busy train, you can walk up the carriage, glancing at the text of the tickets some people will helpfully be holding up (date and to/from locations) and in most cases be able to tell immediately that the ticket is valid. Scanning takes a few seconds longer *per person*, which as you say, presumably adds up. I'm not a guard, though.

Thats true, though I'm interested in your view that everyone who works on the railway is of one sex. Must go and wash the dishes and clean up.:|
 

Muzer

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Oh, apologies. I usually say "they", but in a few cases (especially when we're on a forum full of rail enthusiasts like this one), the predominantly-male stereotype overrides this in my mind (I tend to forget to read people's nicknames, admittedly that would help in this case...).
 

maniacmartin

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If only the english language had a gender-neutral singular pronoun that can be applied to people. I always thought there was a gap in the market there...

My key arrived today. The most useful thing so far has been it's complimentary ticket wallet that has a cut out so you can grab paper tickets to remove them from the wallet. Not so useful is the photo being on the back rather than the front of the card. Surely that mean's that everyone's going to natually put them in ticket wallets with the photo hidden and harder for a guard or RPI to verify.

I'm going to do a few test journeys this weekend.
 
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bb21

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If only the english language had a gender-neutral singular pronoun that can be applied to people. I always thought there was a gap in the market there...

It. It can be used for babies so I see no reason why not grown up humanoids.

Although you might not receive what I would call an agreeable response if you referred to a guard as "it". ;)
 

Muzer

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If only the english language had a gender-neutral singular pronoun that can be applied to people. I always thought there was a gap in the market there...

My key arrived today. The most useful thing so far has been it's complimentary ticket wallet that has a cut out so you can grab paper tickets to remove them from the wallet. Not so useful is the photo being on the back rather than the front of the card. Surely that mean's that everyone's going to natually but them in ticket wallets with the photo hidden and harder for a guard or RPI to verify.

I'm going to do a few test journeys this weekend.
"They" has been around for a surprisingly long time and most people use it in casual speech without realising. It's perfectly acceptable and rarely sounds jarring when used in this singular sense.

It's just my prejudices when talking to people on the internet - before my interest in rail, I've mostly been involved in various programming and to a lesser extent video gaming communities where you can usually count the number of girls on one hand, so defaulting to calling everyone internet "he" is an unfortunate consequence for me that I try my hardest to avoid - but do still fail at sometimes.

@maniacmartin: presumably this wasn't a high priority since most people don't need photos on their cards (only children and a few others IIRC?)

I got my key yesterday. I did note that on the southern website, if you tick "only tickets available on ITSO" you can get (for example) Southampton to Basingstoke tickets (which is theoretically valid on ITSO but not as far as I know The Key - just Stagecoach Smart). Is this intentional - is there already some interoperability in theory, or is this some mistake?
 
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johnnycache

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I got my key yesterday. I did note that on the southern website, if you tick "only tickets available on ITSO" you can get (for example) Southampton to Basingstoke tickets (which is theoretically valid on ITSO but not as far as I know The Key - just Stagecoach Smart). Is this intentional - is there already some interoperability in theory, or is this some mistake?

I have pointed this out to my (former) colleagues at Southern and was told that this was an error but although those fares were shown incorrectly you couldn't actually buy them! I haven't been able to check this yet myself
 
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