It seems that you can't even get the Great Northern complete timetable anymore - they have only produced the pocket timetables, so there are 7 different ones I think to cover each of the GN services instead of having the 3 timetables sets in one simple booklet (GN inners, GN outers and Fenline) that we have always obtained in the past.
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Printed copy of the full British Rail timetable
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A few years ago, Southern advertised an all route/network timetable. I asked a manager about getting one, would have been handy after they went from the route timetable books to the little leaflets. He told me that it did not exist. I showed him a copy of the ad, but no, unable to get one. Barry Doe then noted that it had been discontinued due to lack of demand...
Ahh, so that explains why us in ex-FCC land no longer have full timetable books.. Yet another thing that's gone the Southern way, for the worse.. Only tiny little grey, rather unhelpful leaflets for us, and even then we aren't supposed to display them any more..!
You're welcome. Good to know they produce an extract.
Daz28
Member
You don't even need a tablet - a Kindle will happily read PDFs, and the battery lasts for weeks.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Sorry but no. It is MUCH easier to plan a complicated itinerary via something like real time trains where you can click through each train and follow all of the information. You, of course, may disagree. Most people don't.
As for the stuff about Suffice it to say that no government department or semi governmental organisation has any right to try and force me to have a smart phone. Private companies operating in competition are different, it's up to them how they run their businesses I simply say: :roll:
berneyarms
Established Member
Again really I think you shouldn't be so dogmatic about this.
Different people will have different preferences. Most older people will prefer looking at formal timetables.
Certainly if I'm planning a trip using a BritRail pass, I use the timetable PDFs to plan it.
Just because you prefer a different way doesn't mean that you have sole rights on being right about it.
As I said before - a little bit of understanding that we are all different goes a long way.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
they should try new things then! I clearly said the OP may disagree with my view.
I find the risk of cross reading a timetable line is large in using a printed booklet but no existent in using a on line source.
I find the risk of loosing your place using a vast book of timetables is removed by using an online system
I find online planning much quicker
Say i want to go from say Kings Cross to Peterborough to Nuneaton to Carlisle to Newcastle to York to Manchester I can easily track my trains via an online source like RTT. In a book I have to fiddle on with loads of pages, remember my arrival and departure time, read across, check the symbols, check the day of the week, calculate connection times AND hope the data hasn't changed etc etc.
On line I click through easily and quickly and copy the times onto a bit of paper.
berneyarms
Established Member
I am surmising from your posts you're a younger person, but you do need to understand that many older people are not going to necessarily share that view.
Bear in mind that anyone over 40 will have been using timetables since the year dot and whilst it might seem more complicated to you, they will find them very easy to use.
Just understand that, rather than telling people they're wrong or that they should do things a different way. We are all different and have different needs and preferences.
It's rather akin to your other argument asking posters here to understand that people will like to have a few drinks when they're out!!!!
For the record I'm very happy to use RTT and journey planners, and I use them regularly, but for me they are still no substitute for a formal timetable - and by that I mean at the very least PDF files.
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My Dad does not own and has never used a mobile phone or a computer. He uses the printed National timetable to research all of his journeys for his holidays - in conjunction with some of the TOC issued printed timetable booklets e.g. VTEC, VTWC, ATW etc.
For some journeys (mainly using VTEC) I will book advance fares for him (& check of any forthcoming engineering works) online but he mostly gets the tickets he needs from the ticket office. For him the printed timetable is essential to plan any journey (though he knows the times of the trains on a lot of the regularly used routes with out having to look them up other than to check any amendments when the timetable changes).
He also tends to write off to various places to receive information leaflets back in the post - e.g. the timetable for the Welsh Highland railway that he travelled on last week.
For some journeys (mainly using VTEC) I will book advance fares for him (& check of any forthcoming engineering works) online but he mostly gets the tickets he needs from the ticket office. For him the printed timetable is essential to plan any journey (though he knows the times of the trains on a lot of the regularly used routes with out having to look them up other than to check any amendments when the timetable changes).
He also tends to write off to various places to receive information leaflets back in the post - e.g. the timetable for the Welsh Highland railway that he travelled on last week.
Justin Smith
Member
I made a bit of a stressful discovery..... I thought Sod it I`ll just use last years Summer TT, it`ll probably be pretty similar. I then discovered I`d thrown it away because we`ve just moved and I thought "I`ll be getting a new one in a few weeks !". Only I`m not.... I phoned Middleton`s and they`ve got back issues which they still get demand for*, so I bought one of those. They gave e a 10% discount but it was still nearly £19 incl P&P....
* Ahh, historical research. I`ve got various timetables for dates back to the 1960s. I wasn't around then (or was but was a toddler ! ) and have bought them as reference, very interesting they are too, e.g. seeing the advance in ECML timings with steam > Deltics > HSTs > eletrification. We won`t be able to do that when it`s all just electrnicf. The chances are that even if the pdfs are still available they`ll be unsupported.
* Ahh, historical research. I`ve got various timetables for dates back to the 1960s. I wasn't around then (or was but was a toddler ! ) and have bought them as reference, very interesting they are too, e.g. seeing the advance in ECML timings with steam > Deltics > HSTs > eletrification. We won`t be able to do that when it`s all just electrnicf. The chances are that even if the pdfs are still available they`ll be unsupported.
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Now that the Portable Document Format is an open standard they'll be supported for as long as people want them to be.
greaterwest
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Do you have a source on this? I know for sure know some people who wouldn't use RTT and would either use the NRE (at best) or ask the ticket office for their journey details to be printed out (or otherwise use a traditional timetable)
This is a terrible way of looking at things, you should be ashamed of saying that.
Older people, generally speaking, tend be far more used to and accustomed to using paper timetables to plan their journey (traditional!). I don't think saying "they should just get used to using technology" or words to that effect is a very considerate thing to say.
As per my answer to your previous quote, older people planning a complicated journey would ask railway staff (ticket office, most likely, as they wouldn't use the TVM!) to write down (print off, nowadays) their journey.
Justin Smith
Member
We`ll see shall we ? In my experience software becomes out of date and / or unsupported far faster than anyone could imagine. And, more importantly, it becomes out of date / unsupported far quicker than the vast majority of people (other than those who work in IT) actually want....... But the poor old British public no bleedin` choice, held to ransom by Microsoft and / or companies (and now even the Government) trying to save money. Basically cutting back on as much as they can (in the way of staffing and customer service etc) to make the customer do it instead. A classic example, my major supplier has just changed their IT system. Now I have to print out statements and invoices rather than them, they send only send out stuff by E Mail now.
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Buttsy
Established Member
I disagree with this view, having just worked out a series of complex moves around Cardiff and Birmingham, I found the use of journey planners and online TTs awkward as a number of moves were double-backs with lots of crossings out on my piece of paper. In the old paper TT, I'd have just bookmarked the relevant pages. In the end I ended up printing out the relevant pages from pdf (25 A4 sheets). Searching through 147 pages of a pdf TT is no fun for me, I'd much rather flick through the 'bible'.
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To rely on technology for such things as timetables, is in my view a mistake, nothing can replace the written book, with a smart phone, tablet, pc, it's generally only as good as a wifi ot mobile connection, lose that, and you have a problem, likewise, drop your phone / tablet and break it you are up a gumtree !
(Drop a book you can just pick it up again !)
There are pros and cons for both formats, but overall the printed word will always come out ahead.
(Drop a book you can just pick it up again !)
There are pros and cons for both formats, but overall the printed word will always come out ahead.
That's the point though - it's an open standard. Anyone can write a PDF renderer, in any programming language on the platform of their choice, it isn't dependent on support from any company/organisation. If you wanted to you could write one in QBASIC and run it on MS-DOS.
Justin Smith
Member
Like the majority of people I don`t even know what most of that means. Do you work in IT ? Or have a genuine interest in it, what I mean is an interest in IT itself (as opposed to soley what IT can do for you, which is the attitude of the vast majority of people) ? Personally I just buy a PC and hope it runs all the software I`ve already got. It doesn`t always, since being forced to "upgrade" to Windows 10 (from XP) there are a few programmes I used to use which don`t work any more. I was quite happy with XP, and I was very p****d off when I was forced to change.
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What it means is that the specification of the acrobat/PDF file format has been accepted by the international standards organisation as an international standard.
The technical specification for creating and reading the file format are publicly available from the ISO as standard ISO 32000-1.
So independent implementations of the reading software may be produced by any suitably capable person now or in the future.
It should avoid the lock in/technical obsolescence that has affected certain other formats and which you quite rightly complain about.
edit: although having an open standard doesn't mean that software will be written, merely that it could be written. (Although in this case PDF viewers are widely available)
On the other hand, I can think of few documents more temporary than a transport timetable, they have an inherently fixed and short lifespan.
The technical specification for creating and reading the file format are publicly available from the ISO as standard ISO 32000-1.
So independent implementations of the reading software may be produced by any suitably capable person now or in the future.
It should avoid the lock in/technical obsolescence that has affected certain other formats and which you quite rightly complain about.
edit: although having an open standard doesn't mean that software will be written, merely that it could be written. (Although in this case PDF viewers are widely available)
On the other hand, I can think of few documents more temporary than a transport timetable, they have an inherently fixed and short lifespan.
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Yes, to both of those questions, though I don't know if I agree that it is the 'vast majority' of people. It is, unfortunately, too high a percentage of the population though.
Which is exactly why I say that it's unfortunate that too many people share your attitude. It's eminently possible to run that software, and it isn't even that difficult. It does, however, require a *little* intellectual effort.
Many people were quite happy with manual looms and were quite p***d off when the automated loom was introduced.
Apologies if this comes across as dismissive, but progress happens.
Edit: This is getting *way* off-topic though.
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Bevan Price
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You don't need to print the full timetable - just do the parts you really need.
Free pdf editors are available if you need one.
Sprinter153
Member
Maybe I am a philistine but I carry around my operator's guide to services, a reassuringly weighty tome that will squash many a wayward messroom bluebottle, as it has a lot of useful information, and is better presented than the various online sources we have. It's also handy when working over routes where even 2G signal is luxury!
Indeed it is. The OP has had their answer, so I'm closing the thread now.
Justin Smith
Member
A bit of good news ! With reference to this thread from last Summer, the printed copy of the full National Rail timetable is now available again from Middleton Press. It`s an expensive (£26 + carriage) and weighty tome but I`m still buying one !
Out of interest it`s in two volumes and it`s split at Table 117, i.e. Volume one has tables 1 to 117, volume two has 118 up. This is relevant if, like me, you want to use it for a railrover but don`t want to have to lug both volumes around !
Out of interest it`s in two volumes and it`s split at Table 117, i.e. Volume one has tables 1 to 117, volume two has 118 up. This is relevant if, like me, you want to use it for a railrover but don`t want to have to lug both volumes around !
thenorthern
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Will the timetable numbers be the same? I can credit the timetable with me learning what 15 squared was as 225 was the timetable of Edinburgh to Glasgow via Shotts which I always remembered as it contained Livingston South where my gran lived.
I always remember as well timetable 50 was my line, 80 was Manchester to Sheffield and 100 was Barrow-in-Furness > Whitehaven and Carlisle.
As a child I learnt almost every station in the country from the timetable.
I always remember as well timetable 50 was my line, 80 was Manchester to Sheffield and 100 was Barrow-in-Furness > Whitehaven and Carlisle.
As a child I learnt almost every station in the country from the timetable.
they're surprisingly static, last I checked
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