On the recent FCC meet the directors forum (although I do wonder if any directors actually contribute anymore) I wrote this, following the comments from the nice RPI that is now harassing me at any given opportunity.
Question Number:20
From: Mr Jonathan Morris
I have a question that has serious implications on my own personal travel arrangements, and that of many other FCC commuters on the GN branch.
I have been an annual season ticket holder for eight years, using FCC since you took over in April 2006. For a number of years, I have been travelling to/from Old Street with a Hatfield to Hadley Wood season ticket (with plus Bus at Hatfield) and an Oyster card for Travelcard Zones 1-6. Both are annual tickets.
Although not relevant to this question, it's clearly a significant amount of money paid up-front every year.
As you are obviously aware, Condition 19 of the NCoC states that I must travel on a train service that calls at this station.
However, for as long as I can remember, FCC (and Wagn/National Express before it) has stated that we are allowed to travel on services that do not call at the boundary. Any TOC can choose to waive certain rules in favour of the passenger, which has always been the case.
In fact, a number of passengers may still have letters from FCC (under Elaine Holt) that implicitly stated it was acceptable and there may be messages on an earlier online forum.
The sole reason for combining the tickets is to get the benefit of an Oyster card when travelling around London. Until the industry as a whole (including the Department for Transport) can get a standardised smartcard system in place, or TfL extends Zone 6 to include Potters Bar (as has been rumoured for some time), there will always be the need for this special permission.
In fact, I have had no problems in all the years that I have been travelling, until recently an RPI said he had been told he is now to enforce the rule and I would be liable to pay a penalty fare (although, I was not actually given one).
I have subsequently asked another RPI who said that his manager is telling revenue staff to clamp down, but even then I wasn't given a PF. It seems that revenue staff do not consider it a fair use of a penalty fare, especially when it has been allowed for such a long time and doesn't appear to do FCC any harm.
Can you please confirm if it is now prohibited for me, and others, to travel on a train that doesn't call at the boundary of Zone 6 (Hadley Wood) on the GN branch?
If so, what happens to people like me with an annual ticket that doesn't expire until the end of 2010? I would consider buying a different ticket (although I wouldn't be happy about it given that it means having to use paper tickets that will probably have to be replaced every month), but don't feel that I should be forced to change it part way through, which is almost certainly going to leave me out of pocket.
Such enforcement would also meant that I am now barred from using a number of services, especially at weekends and late at night.
I am hoping that there has been a simple misunderstanding here and that you can make things perfectly clear.
Their response was:
Given that they didn't actually answer, or even give a name to attribute to the answer I posted the following:
Question Number:38
From: Mr Jonathan Morris
Quote: "I cannot comment of the previous franchise oporators view of this.
FCC have always enforced the NRCoC and the combination of tickets your hold is only allowable under condition 19b.
Revenue Protection staff are constantly reminded of this and other fare evasion or fraudulent behaviour."
It isn't about the previous operator though, given that it was allowed when Elaine Holt was in charge and she definitely worked for FCC, not Wagn!
Of course, given that I don't have any documentary proof, I guess it's my word against yours and I am clearly going to lose this one. To say I am disappointed by this response is an understatement, and I feel for anyone else that is reading this and in the same situation.
It would be nice if I could be told who actually made that statement above, and whether I am now to be considered as someone who is fare evading or committing fraudulent behaviour. And if I am deemed a criminal, exactly what harm am I doing to FCC should this have to go to court?
I'd very much like to know what you suggest as a solution, perhaps offline by email if necessary.
As a supporter and defender of FCC for many years, I feel incredibly let down by this response and must say that in the last year I've been finding more and more reasons to consider things that are not changing for the better.
To which they replied again:
Still no name, and still no real attempt to answer my questions (unless they email me offline later). Are they going to find any letter from Elaine? Are they even going to look? And, how is that going to help me now that any semi-fast train I go on will make me liable to a PF or worse?
Question Number:20
From: Mr Jonathan Morris
I have a question that has serious implications on my own personal travel arrangements, and that of many other FCC commuters on the GN branch.
I have been an annual season ticket holder for eight years, using FCC since you took over in April 2006. For a number of years, I have been travelling to/from Old Street with a Hatfield to Hadley Wood season ticket (with plus Bus at Hatfield) and an Oyster card for Travelcard Zones 1-6. Both are annual tickets.
Although not relevant to this question, it's clearly a significant amount of money paid up-front every year.
As you are obviously aware, Condition 19 of the NCoC states that I must travel on a train service that calls at this station.
However, for as long as I can remember, FCC (and Wagn/National Express before it) has stated that we are allowed to travel on services that do not call at the boundary. Any TOC can choose to waive certain rules in favour of the passenger, which has always been the case.
In fact, a number of passengers may still have letters from FCC (under Elaine Holt) that implicitly stated it was acceptable and there may be messages on an earlier online forum.
The sole reason for combining the tickets is to get the benefit of an Oyster card when travelling around London. Until the industry as a whole (including the Department for Transport) can get a standardised smartcard system in place, or TfL extends Zone 6 to include Potters Bar (as has been rumoured for some time), there will always be the need for this special permission.
In fact, I have had no problems in all the years that I have been travelling, until recently an RPI said he had been told he is now to enforce the rule and I would be liable to pay a penalty fare (although, I was not actually given one).
I have subsequently asked another RPI who said that his manager is telling revenue staff to clamp down, but even then I wasn't given a PF. It seems that revenue staff do not consider it a fair use of a penalty fare, especially when it has been allowed for such a long time and doesn't appear to do FCC any harm.
Can you please confirm if it is now prohibited for me, and others, to travel on a train that doesn't call at the boundary of Zone 6 (Hadley Wood) on the GN branch?
If so, what happens to people like me with an annual ticket that doesn't expire until the end of 2010? I would consider buying a different ticket (although I wouldn't be happy about it given that it means having to use paper tickets that will probably have to be replaced every month), but don't feel that I should be forced to change it part way through, which is almost certainly going to leave me out of pocket.
Such enforcement would also meant that I am now barred from using a number of services, especially at weekends and late at night.
I am hoping that there has been a simple misunderstanding here and that you can make things perfectly clear.
Their response was:
Given that they didn't actually answer, or even give a name to attribute to the answer I posted the following:
Question Number:38
From: Mr Jonathan Morris
Quote: "I cannot comment of the previous franchise oporators view of this.
FCC have always enforced the NRCoC and the combination of tickets your hold is only allowable under condition 19b.
Revenue Protection staff are constantly reminded of this and other fare evasion or fraudulent behaviour."
It isn't about the previous operator though, given that it was allowed when Elaine Holt was in charge and she definitely worked for FCC, not Wagn!
Of course, given that I don't have any documentary proof, I guess it's my word against yours and I am clearly going to lose this one. To say I am disappointed by this response is an understatement, and I feel for anyone else that is reading this and in the same situation.
It would be nice if I could be told who actually made that statement above, and whether I am now to be considered as someone who is fare evading or committing fraudulent behaviour. And if I am deemed a criminal, exactly what harm am I doing to FCC should this have to go to court?
I'd very much like to know what you suggest as a solution, perhaps offline by email if necessary.
As a supporter and defender of FCC for many years, I feel incredibly let down by this response and must say that in the last year I've been finding more and more reasons to consider things that are not changing for the better.
To which they replied again:
Still no name, and still no real attempt to answer my questions (unless they email me offline later). Are they going to find any letter from Elaine? Are they even going to look? And, how is that going to help me now that any semi-fast train I go on will make me liable to a PF or worse?
