• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

‘Deteriorating’ Cambridgeshire guided busway may need to be ripped up

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
That very out of date link is just a blog post by some some buffoon who is a member of the pro-car, anti-cycle, anti-bus pro-pollution brigade, which is best ignored. The bridge is back to being congested with cars.

Yes - that's the point. Here are some more up to date links for your delectation

http://www.york.gov.uk/info/200190/transport_and_travel/1485/lendal_bridge
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/services/...-policy/dorchester-street-traffic-restriction

In both instances, the pro-car lobby has managed to get these decisions REVERSED. You can say they're "best ignored" but actually, local politicians tend to be influenced by such campaigns.

Also, the point I responded to was along the lines that such measures work in London.... Even there, the congestion zone was scaled back by Boris, and so if you genuinely think that there's an appetite for punitive measures against motorists, think again.

In Bristol, the mayor has encountered all manner of criticism in changing parking restrictions and imposing 20 mph speed limits in the city. I think he's right to, but many politicians will do what is expedient or populist (see Liverpool) and that often means policies that don't target car users and that is the REALITY of the situation.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
if you genuinely think that there's an appetite for punitive measures against motorists, think again.

While this is probably right, I again don't think it's relevant. This isn't bus lanes we are talking about, it is an entirely new piece of infrastructure which was never open to cars. I'm proposing that instead of wrecking cars erroneously accessing it they instead fine them.

In Bristol, the mayor has encountered all manner of criticism in changing parking restrictions and imposing 20 mph speed limits in the city. I think he's right to, but many politicians will do what is expedient or populist (see Liverpool) and that often means policies that don't target car users and that is the REALITY of the situation.

A different situation. I think some of his ideas are good and others are very bad. In particular the lack of a decent carrot[1] (regular First bus services don't count) for his stick is no doubt riling. And I don't support blanket 20mph zones anywhere; individual speed limit changes should only occur in specific situations where a risk assessment justifies them.

[1] He says cycling, but in such a hilly city cycling is only ever going to be for the younger and fitter in society. Old Mrs Smith cycling into town on her old shopping bike, filling up the basket and cycling home only works in flat-ish places, which Bristol very much is not.
 
Last edited:

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
The closure of the Lendal Bridge in York wasn't thought through, but isn't really relevant either, because it's old infrastructure not new.

The problem with the Cambridge busway is that BAM Nuttall haven't built it properly. BAM will blame the council, the council will blame the contractor, the lawyers will make lots of money, and which side you take will depend on whether you're an engineer, a lawyer, or a local taxpayer. FWIW I think trying to blame the Council's procurement team for sloppy workmanship, as other posters on this thread tried to, is strange.

Equally I don't see why a proper road wasn't feasible. Where it's been tried elsewhere it has worked. The Runcorn bus lanes are just tarmac roads with enforcement cameras, and they generally work ok. The bus lane between Gateshead quayside and Dunston, or the bus-only streets by Manchester Arndale Centre, which are protected by rising bollards work effectively too. Barriers slow things down but not that much; the buses have to go relatively slowly as they join the guided busway anyway.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The closure of the Lendal Bridge in York wasn't thought through, but isn't really relevant either, because it's old infrastructure not new.

The problem with the Cambridge busway is that BAM Nuttall haven't built it properly. BAM will blame the council, the council will blame the contractor, the lawyers will make lots of money, and which side you take will depend on whether you're an engineer, a lawyer, or a local taxpayer. FWIW I think trying to blame the Council's procurement team for sloppy workmanship, as other posters on this thread tried to, is strange.

Equally I don't see why a proper road wasn't feasible. Where it's been tried elsewhere it has worked. The Runcorn bus lanes are just tarmac roads with enforcement cameras, and they generally work ok. The bus lane between Gateshead quayside and Dunston, or the bus-only streets by Manchester Arndale Centre, which are protected by rising bollards work effectively too. Barriers slow things down but not that much; the buses have to go relatively slowly as they join the guided busway anyway.

Hang on..... my response was to a comment about "it works for London". What new infrastructure was THAT comment relating to? Or have I missed some brand new bus only highway that has been mysteriously opened?

In the event that I've missed some new bus only bridge over the Thames, then I can only assume that Neil was talking about existing infrastructure in terms of bus lane compliance? In London, such fines are generally accepted but elsewhere, punitive charges against motorists are deeply unpopular.

FWIW, I agree that there's no issue with such fines on infrastructure built and dedicated for non car use.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
While this is probably right, I again don't think it's relevant. This isn't bus lanes we are talking about, it is an entirely new piece of infrastructure which was never open to cars. I'm proposing that instead of wrecking cars erroneously accessing it they instead fine them.



A different situation. I think some of his ideas are good and others are very bad. In particular the lack of a decent carrot[1] (regular First bus services don't count) for his stick is no doubt riling. And I don't support blanket 20mph zones anywhere; individual speed limit changes should only occur in specific situations where a risk assessment justifies them.

[1] He says cycling, but in such a hilly city cycling is only ever going to be for the younger and fitter in society. Old Mrs Smith cycling into town on her old shopping bike, filling up the basket and cycling home only works in flat-ish places, which Bristol very much is not.

There speaks a person who clearly hasn't been cycling in Bristol. Whislt Bristol has hills, you aren't familiar with the Malago Greenway, the Bristol to Bath cycle path, and the route in from Whitchurch. Bristol has hills but also has former rail lines that have been reused for cycle routes.

As a former Bristol resident, I can confirm that they're well used for commuting and for leisure purposes.
 

ac6000cw

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
3,121
Location
Cambridge, UK
TFWIW I think trying to blame the Council's procurement team for sloppy workmanship, as other posters on this thread tried to, is strange.

I agree.

Barriers slow things down but not that much; the buses have to go relatively slowly as they join the guided busway anyway.

They don't slow down very much on the Cambridge busway - at the flat busway/road crossings (where the original railway level crossings were) the buses go from guided to highway to guided at near full speed, unless for some reason the traffic signals that control them have been a bit slow in changing. We have rising-bollard controlled bus lanes in parts of Cambridge as well, and enforcement cameras on the 'open' bus lanes.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
There speaks a person who clearly hasn't been cycling in Bristol.

I'll be honest, I haven't, though I have been there a number of times.

Whislt Bristol has hills, you aren't familiar with the Malago Greenway, the Bristol to Bath cycle path, and the route in from Whitchurch. Bristol has hills but also has former rail lines that have been reused for cycle routes.

Which are only any good if you live on them and not on the top of any of the hills! I'm all right, Jack :)

As a former Bristol resident, I can confirm that they're well used for commuting and for leisure purposes.

I'm sure they are, but heavily discouraging cars requires a carrot for everyone, not just some people. Such as a high quality integrated public transport system, which Bristol nowhere near has - it has a motley collection of infrequent rail services and a somewhat average First bus service. Not good enough.

To really make the car the worst option, you need Dutch standards of cycling and public transport, which in Bristol's case would have to be heavily weighted in favour of the latter due to the hills.
 
Last edited:

AB93

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2015
Messages
308
...tramway systems. But they would have been lighter and less damaging to the fenlands - unlike the dumping of these concrete sections on top, Yes it probably would have cost more than the original outline budget of the busway - but the council are paying badly for that now

But Edinburgh tram went horrendously wrong in construction too, and well over budget, as well. Just because the Cambridgeshire busway construction was dodgy, doesn't mean all busways are bad - likewise, not all tramways go well.

At least Cambridge busway was actually finished to its original, full length route.
The Edinburgh tram is only half the length of what was planned!!
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Which are only any good if you live on them and not on the top of any of the hills! I'm all right, Jack :)



I'm sure they are, but heavily discouraging cars requires a carrot for everyone, not just some people. Such as a high quality integrated public transport system, which Bristol nowhere near has - it has a motley collection of infrequent rail services and a somewhat average First bus service. Not good enough.

To really make the car the worst option, you need Dutch standards of cycling and public transport, which in Bristol's case would have to be heavily weighted in favour of the latter due to the hills.

First of all, let me assure you that I didn't leave adjacent to the cycle paths I mentioned. Also, there are a great many areas away from those already cited where people can (and do) cycle into and around Bristol.

Again, you won't appreciate this but there is quite a healthy number of users who will utilise the ring road cyclepath to destinations such as Abbey Wood (MOD), UWE, Standard Life at Stoke Gifford etc, and indeed using bus lane/cycle lane infrastructure from flatter areas (East to West flows following the river benefit from this such as along the Portway). However, you'd also be quite surprised to see the number of people (and these aren't hipsters on single speeds or lycra clad heroes in their Rapha Sky replica kits) who cycle to/from the city from hilly areas like Totterdown or Brislington. From this, you may have guessed that I am a cyclist and yep, I'd love to see better infrastructure and facilities.

However, whilst I do take on what you say about the carrot, remember the Manchester vote. People didn't vote for the congestion zone and that was despite the transport infrastructure being much better and hypothecation of the funds raised.

It takes brave politicians to make the bold decisions, and we don't get too many conviction politicians. As for increased spending, there's now a generally accepted view that the NHS will require a further £8bn to keep it in shape.....I don't hold out much hope that public transport spending will occupy the same level in people's or politician's mindsets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But Edinburgh tram went horrendously wrong in construction too, and well over budget, as well. Just because the Cambridgeshire busway construction was dodgy, doesn't mean all busways are bad - likewise, not all tramways go well.

At least Cambridge busway was actually finished to its original, full length route.
The Edinburgh tram is only half the length of what was planned!!

Indeed.

Also, the cost of reinstatement of the Borders Railway increased from £155m (2006) to a current projected out-turn of £348m and is four years late.

More worrying still, the lead contractor is BAM Nuttall - :roll:
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
In London, such fines are generally accepted but elsewhere, punitive charges against motorists are deeply unpopular.

I think my point was more that the closure of Lendal Bridge was a stupid idea and people were always going to turn against it.

You do get populist arguments about bus lanes (see M4 or Liverpool) but they're only really targeted at schemes where existing roads are narrowed for them. The M4 bus lane is a brilliant example- it actually cut congestion where the M4 goes to two lanes, but was attacked by populist politicians and now the congestion is back.

As for new infrastructure in London, how can you forget East London Transit ;)
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I think my point was more that the closure of Lendal Bridge was a stupid idea and people were always going to turn against it.

You do get populist arguments about bus lanes (see M4 or Liverpool) but they're only really targeted at schemes where existing roads are narrowed for them. The M4 bus lane is a brilliant example- it actually cut congestion where the M4 goes to two lanes, but was attacked by populist politicians and now the congestion is back.

As for new infrastructure in London, how can you forget East London Transit ;)

I agree with you. The M4 bus lane was a cause celebre, and that the issue surrounds existing infrastructure when people are denied from doing what they've done ad infinitum. Also, you'll get no disagreement from me about the Lendal Bridge fiasco. However, this is in a city that is relatively flat (reasonable cycling uptake), has a reasonable bus network, and one of the most comprehensive P&R set ups going (with the Askham Bar site massively expanded owing to its success).

My issue was Neil's assertion that "it works in London". That's as may be, but the experience elsewhere is more mixed ;) Sadly, on this board, we have a different perspective whilst politicians have to deal with dingbats like my sister in law who managed to pocket two Lendal Bridge fines!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
However, whilst I do take on what you say about the carrot, remember the Manchester vote. People didn't vote for the congestion zone and that was despite the transport infrastructure being much better and hypothecation of the funds raised.

Carrot first as hypothecation is meaningless (you can always remove other non-hypothecated funding to balance it) and politicians cannot be trusted to deliver their part.

I would also have voted "no". Notably, many of the Metrolink improvements were funded anyway :)
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
Well, clearly trains manage not to be a red herring pretty much anywhere else that they run a suitable service, so you'll forgive me if I don't buy into the idea that St Ives, in contrast to pretty much everywhere else in the United Kingdom is so unique and other worldly, that it alone wouldn't have use for a connection to the rail network.

The people in the areas served by the Busway are from housing estates and small towns who can now catch a bus direct into their main centre, Cambridge, without having to fight through jams on the A14.
Why would they want to have to get to a railway station, catch a [less-frequent] train so as to get off at Cambridge railway station - far away from the shopping centre ?

The Busway really has *nothing* to do with trains !!
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The people in the areas served by the Busway are from housing estates and small towns who can now catch a bus direct into their main centre, Cambridge, without having to fight through jams on the A14.
Why would they want to have to get to a railway station, catch a [less-frequent] train so as to get off at Cambridge railway station - far away from the shopping centre ?

The Busway really has *nothing* to do with trains !!

Absolutely Robert. I have a couple of friends with families (one lives in Histon, the other Huntingdon) and they are not public transport champions but they are really impressed having used it.

They can travel into central Cambridge to go shopping, and they really like using the evening journeys to have an evening out being free to have a drink etc. If it were a train, they'd never have used it!
 

glbotu

Member
Joined
8 Apr 2012
Messages
644
Location
Oxford
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the city of Cambridge, it's surroundings and the reasoning behind the Guided Busway.

1. The main employment centre to which people wish to go is Cambridge Science Park/Business Park. A large part of the reason the Busway was built was to move the existing bus service (Go Whippet's 1 and 1A) off the obscenely congested A14. It can get backed up for a large number of junctions, just from people trying to get off for the Science Park. This is largely because the 3 exits off the A14 for Cambridge are

a) A roundabout onto the 2 lane Histon Road, with a single lane slip road for the Cambridge direction.
b) A roundabout onto 3 lanes into Cambridge Science Park with a single lane slip road for the Cambridge direction
c) A single lane flat junction onto Horningsea Road.

With everyone under the sun trying especially hard to get off at b).

Without closing that junction and completely re-make the access into Cambridge, especially the Science Park, they needed an alternative to sending the main public transport service from a series of Cambridge commuter towns down the A14. The main traffic was along the St Ives corridor and there was a convenient rail alignment there.

When asking the question "does everyone from those towns want to go to Cambridge", the answer is yes. Those who most benefit from the Busway are commuters to the science park. The bus then extends into Central Cambridge, mostly for the benefits of students and tourists, and to not denigrate what was the previous 1/1A service that provided a reasonably rapid*** link to the science park from Cambridge city centre (otherwise, City -> Science Park commuters would have to make do with the hourly 9 or very slow 2 - via Chesterton and Mill Road).

A heavy rail link into Cambridge Railway station doesn't maintain capacity City - Science Park, which the busway does (even if it still has to travel along congested Cambridge roads). One could argue that a new bus route would have done the trick, but given the fact that the cost of the busway was perceived as small, this appeared to be a 2 birds, 1 stone situation.

The ideal would be a crayonista dream, with a light rail service going into a Cambridge Underground Metro, but that would have been way too expensive. I certainly can see passenger uptake upon opening of Cambridge North railway station, as it will become much easier for passengers along that corridor to get to central Cambridge, via the station (which is about 15mins from the city centre).

I certainly agree that there were planning/thought process issues with the busway, but compared to more expensive alternatives, it provides a very useful service.

***Milton Road traffic notwithstanding
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
To really make the car the worst option, you need Dutch standards of cycling and public transport, which in Bristol's case would have to be heavily weighted in favour of the latter due to the hills.

I don't really need to be involved in these (somewhat repetitive) debates these days, as Neil pretty much generally says what I would have said. However, I would add that electric bikes make hills virtually irrelevant. For some reason, there is a stigma against electric bikes in this country, annoyingly and especially from the Lycra crowd, who you would have hoped to have on your side. Who cares if you are 'cheating', unless you are in a cycle race?

TheGreatWazoo always says that there is no money, and I tend to agree with him that it is more or less game over for buses in Britain outside London. But there is a (very tiny) glimmer of hope from the Labour manifesto, which has more words about buses than I've seen in a major party's manifesto in years. Manifestos are of course no guarantee, which is why it is a very tiny glimmer of hope, especially if improvements are uncosted, but it is a, again I say, very tiny, start. If you want to clutch at straws, there's one to clutch to. It will be interesting to see how much the others say about buses.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I don't really need to be involved in these (somewhat repetitive) debates these days, as Neil pretty much generally says what I would have said. However, I would add that electric bikes make hills virtually irrelevant. For some reason, there is a stigma against electric bikes in this country, annoyingly and especially from the Lycra crowd, who you would have hoped to have on your side. Who cares if you are 'cheating', unless you are in a cycle race?

TheGreatWazoo always says that there is no money, and I tend to agree with him that it is more or less game over for buses in Britain outside London. But there is a (very tiny) glimmer of hope from the Labour manifesto, which has more words about buses than I've seen in a major party's manifesto in years. Manifestos are of course no guarantee, which is why it is a very tiny glimmer of hope, especially if improvements are uncosted, but it is a, again I say, very tiny, start. If you want to clutch at straws, there's one to clutch to. It will be interesting to see how much the others say about buses.

The appearance of electric bikes is beginning to become a little more common but not so much as not to elicit a comment when two went past when I was in York the other day :) Thankfully, most of cyclists aren't of the purist variety. I do own a road bike and am occasionally lycra-ed up, but most of us aren't so pious; we just like to see people cycling!

The Labour manifesto does mention buses and returning control but crucially not additional funding. Instead, it does mention about transferring funding from central to local governments (no increase, no hypothecation). This chimes with earlier comments from Mary Creagh in that ‘It’s important to separate out funding and control. The measures needed to give cities the powers that London have are mainly legal and political.

Our announcement is about control rather than funding – we want to give cities/combined authorities, etc, the power to decide how to run their buses. This is part of Labour’s wider devolution agenda about handing down power, not a spending commitment.’


and as Route One mentioned

Mary Creagh says “a Labour government will provide all the necessary support to ensure that any city that wants London-style buses can have them.”

My first question is to Mary Creagh. If you will support cities that want London-style buses, will you also provide them with London-style subsidy? The regulated bus market in London comes at a huge cost to the taxpayer. It’s not cheap. Will you be able to get Ed Balls to give you and these cities the kind of blank cheque that your remarks imply? Something tells me you – and the cities – may be sadly disappointed.


Anyhow, we're drifting way off the topic :(

FWIW, I took the opportunity to use the X5 to Cambridge from Milton Keynes last summer, and then took the Busway out to Huntingdon (before a trip to St Neots to rejoin the X5).

The Busway was a delight to experience, with great views across the countryside from the top deck. I got on at Drummer Street and we made our way in reasonable time to the busway and then sped across the countryside. Then at St Ives, we had the dart into the town centre and then serving the various outlying estates of Huntingdon (which I concede was a bit bland).

It's just a shame that the contractor seems to have failed to build something to spec (allegedly!)
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
The Cambridgeshire busway is undoubtedly fun to ride. Driving flat out at 50 mph so close to a bus going the other way at the same speed is only possible on a guided busway. However, I like riding on busways in general, guided or not. I have switched my opinion over the years and now believe that you don't need guidance and a normal bus only road should suffice, unless you really can't make the road wide enough. Most of the great busway systems of the world are regular roads. I think it would have been more difficult to sell the Cambridgeshire busway when it was going through the planning and consultation stage as a normal busway without guide rails.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,969
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The Cambridgeshire busway is undoubtedly fun to ride. Driving flat out at 50 mph so close to a bus going the other way at the same speed is only possible on a guided busway. However, I like riding on busways in general, guided or not. I have switched my opinion over the years and now believe that you don't need guidance and a normal bus only road should suffice, unless you really can't make the road wide enough. Most of the great busway systems of the world are regular roads. I think it would have been more difficult to sell the Cambridgeshire busway when it was going through the planning and consultation stage as a normal busway without guide rails.

I think you're probably right on the sell; building a single carriageway road purely for buses against an additional lane for the A14?

I guess some will never be happy as it's not a train and some because it isn't a road for their metal box. I think the plan was laudable and broadly correct but clearly not the execution!
 

AB93

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2015
Messages
308
The Cambridgeshire busway is undoubtedly fun to ride. Driving flat out at 50 mph so close to a bus going the other way at the same speed is only possible on a guided busway. However, I like riding on busways in general, guided or not. I have switched my opinion over the years and now believe that you don't need guidance and a normal bus only road should suffice, unless you really can't make the road wide enough. Most of the great busway systems of the world are regular roads. I think it would have been more difficult to sell the Cambridgeshire busway when it was going through the planning and consultation stage as a normal busway without guide rails.

There was also the issue of building a new non-guided busway, then at the next election a different party coming to power and opening the whole thing up for cars (which was actually a genuine concern in the Cambridge case).

Probably with reason - given some of the Runcorn busway has been opened up to cars over the years.
 

Teflon Lettuce

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2013
Messages
1,750
Incorrect. Passenger services were removed in the 1970s, But actually the line closed in the late 1990s after the cessation of the freight services with the track remaining until the mis-guided busway was unfortunately conceived...But don't let that get in the way of your Busway's are the future agenda!.

I stand corrected on when the line closed to passenger traffic. However I do object to the slanderous comment you make about my views.

I have already stated in previous posts that I believe in horses for courses, but I WILL defend busways against the "rail at any cost" lobbyists such as yourself!

The original intention of this thread was to discuss what has gone so wrong with this busway that it needs remedial work already.

We fortunately live in a democracy. This means we elect politicians at both a local and national level. We then have to trust that they will use due diligence when taking decisions.

Whatever OUR views, the politicians in this case decided that a GUIDED BUSWAY would serve the needs of their residents better than a light or heavy rail solution.

Just because this particular busway has continually needed remedial work since being built does NOT make busways a flawed concept. ALL infrastructure needs maintenance and repair to keep it running at A1 condition.

Anyone who argues that the problems with the Cambridgeshire Busway's construction shows that busways are flawed has to then argue that RAILWAYS are also a flawed solution.... or have you forgotten what happened after the Hatfield crash when huge chunks of the rail network ground to a halt when it was discovered that the rails were full of cracks... perhaps at that point we should have ripped up all the rails and turned them into motorways? I think not!
 

talltim

Established Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
2,454
I don't understand why guided busways are built the way they are. There's two bits needed, surface for the wheels and guides for, err, the guidey bits. As someone said up thread, but I think was misunderstood, why not a Tarmac road, but with guides?
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
I don't understand why guided busways are built the way they are. There's two bits needed, surface for the wheels and guides for, err, the guidey bits. As someone said up thread, but I think was misunderstood, why not a Tarmac road, but with guides?

Possibly not as durable in the longer term ? (always assuming that contractors do the job properly!).
 

Stompehh

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
160
I don't understand why guided busways are built the way they are. There's two bits needed, surface for the wheels and guides for, err, the guidey bits. As someone said up thread, but I think was misunderstood, why not a Tarmac road, but with guides?

As the wheels are always in exactly the same place, the wear on the road is not spread out at all. The tarmac would very quickly deteriorate, particularly with the large loads from buses at high speed.

You can see this effect often at bus stops, where the road has sunk close to the kerb. In Bristol, many busy bus stops are having their surface replaced by a concrete slab for this very reason.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Yes, tarmac is quite soft and erodes quickly, particularly if the wheels are in the exact same position every time, which they would be as they are guided.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
I have already stated in previous posts that I believe in horses for courses, but I WILL defend busways against the "rail at any cost" lobbyists such as yourself!

The original intention of this thread was to discuss what has gone so wrong with this busway that it needs remedial work already.

We fortunately live in a democracy. This means we elect politicians at both a local and national level. We then have to trust that they will use due diligence when taking decisions.

Whatever OUR views, the politicians in this case decided that a GUIDED BUSWAY would serve the needs of their residents better than a light or heavy rail solution

And politicians don't always get it right. In terms of railway planning, they got it disastrously wrong for two decades between the mid 1960's and mid 1980's, so don't expect me to accept their opinions without scrutiny.

I will continue to speak against the "anything but rail" brigade which dominated English (but not Welsh or Scottish) Government in the naughties.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
On the subject of construction, the ones in Leeds are built of concrete and seem to survive perfectly well.
 
Last edited:

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Not just guided busways, plenty of criticism come in of the bridges and cycleways on Borders Railway. That they are too steep or that parapets block views of traffic.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,268
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
TheGreatWazoo always says that there is no money, and I tend to agree with him that it is more or less game over for buses in Britain outside London.

If that is the case, speaking as one who resides exterior to the TfGM controlled empire, why have companies such as Stagecoach invested (in the TfGM area) so much money into very large fleets of brand new buses that are less polluting than were used in traffic in previous years?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top