£100 Fine - HELP!!!

[rodbarajas]

Want to keep the details of this vague so will not be including station names.

I boarded a train at a station which does not have ticket collection/buying facilities. I had brought cash with me to buy a ticket on the train. However, the conductor did not manage to get to me before the final stop (Station X).

At Station X there are no ticket buying/collecting facilities before you go through the barriers. I went through the barriers but was stopped by a ticket inspector. Tried to explain the situation but they thought I was trying to evade paying for my fare.

As a result I've been given a £100 fine + value of ticket. Is there any way I can appeal this?
Thanks.

 

[Clip]

you dont just get a '£100 fine plus value of a ticket'

Is this the first letter they have sent you? What did you say to the RPI when you got to your destination?

With more information then the people on here can help you more.

Were the barriers open then and if not how did you get through?

 

[Harlequin]

It would be helpful to know which station / line / TOC you were travelling from / with in order to give some advice, but how did you get through the barrier without a ticket?

 

[Bertie the bus]

When you are looking for help and claim to have done nothing wrong it is difficult to understand why you want to keep it so vague that nobody has a clue what happened.

Two obvious questions are:

How did you get through the barriers if you didn’t have a ticket?
Where was the RPI that caught you?

If what happened is you got to your destination without seeing the conductor and thought ‘Free ride!’ and instead of approaching the person on the gate tailgated through the barrier it is difficult to see how you would have any grounds whatsoever to appeal.

If that isn’t what happened you are going to have to provide more information if you want any help.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Different train companies might have different rules - for example, some operate Penalty Fare schemes whilst others don't

Why do you want to withhold the names of the stations - have you something to hide?

Was the "£100 fine" a Penalty Fare? If the answer is "Yes", then pay up! You got off "lightly".

You will need to provide more information if you want expert help

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

It's never good to get in trouble with the railways. If nothing else, you now have reason to find out how complicated things can be with train companies.

And it's because things can be complicated that we may have to ask some questions that sound like prying.

So to let us help you, please can you tell us

- what have you been given that you call a 'fine'? We need to know because it will tell us whether you are having to deal with the law courts or (for the moment at least) the railway companies and their agents. I think you might have
- a penalty fare
- a letter from the train company offering to let you settle for £100 or
- a fine from the courts for £100

- which railway company was involved? I am not asking so that we can find out where you are, but because different train companies have different policies.

Whatever the answers are to these questions, the easy solution for you is to pay the £100: that will be the end of the matter, although if it really is a fine from a court, you might get a criminal record. But if you really think that you haven't been treated fairly (it might surprise you how many people ask for help here, but when the full story emerges it turns out that they were trying to get a free ride on the train) then you may be able to take matters further. That could leave you with an unblemished reputation - but you could end up convicted by the courts.

 

[AlterEgo]

Want to keep the details of this vague so will not be including station names.

I boarded a train at a station which does not have ticket collection/buying facilities. I had brought cash with me to buy a ticket on the train. However, the conductor did not manage to get to me before the final stop (Station X).

At Station X there are no ticket buying/collecting facilities before you go through the barriers. I went through the barriers but was stopped by a ticket inspector. Tried to explain the situation but they thought I was trying to evade paying for my fare.

As a result I've been given a £100 fine + value of ticket. Is there any way I can appeal this?
Thanks.

There are avenues of appeal, but for us to advise on the best way forward we need specifics - the Train Company involved, whether you've been given a Penalty Fare or an out of court settlement, the time of day, the day of the week, the station names, and full details of the interaction between you and the train company employee.

Penalty Fares and other ticket irregularities are not altogether as simple as they first seem and there may, or may not, be a number of defences open to you.

 

[6Gman]

Want to keep the details of this vague so will not be including station names.

I boarded a train at a station which does not have ticket collection/buying facilities. I had brought cash with me to buy a ticket on the train. However, the conductor did not manage to get to me before the final stop (Station X).

At Station X there are no ticket buying/collecting facilities before you go through the barriers. I went through the barriers but was stopped by a ticket inspector. Tried to explain the situation but they thought I was trying to evade paying for my fare.

As a result I've been given a £100 fine + value of ticket. Is there any way I can appeal this?
Thanks.

Were these automatic barriers? (The ones where you need to insert a ticket to get them to open.)
Or were they automatic barriers, but with the barriers open? i.e. not in use.
Or do you just mean the exit from the platform?

 

[najaB]

At Station X there are no ticket buying/collecting facilities before you go through the barriers. I went through the barriers...

How were you able to do this without a ticket?

 

[Gareth Marston]

How were you able to do this without a ticket?

Quite I don't know of a station with barriers that doesn't have ticket buying facilities.

 

[6Gman]

Quite I don't know of a station with barriers that doesn't have ticket buying facilities.

Hence my earlier question.

The OP may simply mean the exit from the platform rather than a barrier as such, but we'll be none the wiser on this or anything else until (or if) he/she returns.

 

[Elecman]

I think the OP is referring to the Ticket buying facilities at the destination station being on the unpaid side of the barrier line whilst he/she was obviously approaching from the paid side

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Could it be that the barriers at Station X were open, thus allowing people to pass through? Was the OP expecting an excess fares window on the platform side? Hopefully, the OP will come back and clarify things...

 

[RussellFM]

Want to keep the details of this vague so will not be including station names.

I boarded a train at a station which does not have ticket collection/buying facilities. I had brought cash with me to buy a ticket on the train. However, the conductor did not manage to get to me before the final stop (Station X).

At Station X there are no ticket buying/collecting facilities before you go through the barriers. I went through the barriers but was stopped by a ticket inspector. Tried to explain the situation but they thought I was trying to evade paying for my fare.

As a result I've been given a £100 fine + value of ticket. Is there any way I can appeal this?
Thanks.

Do you have any proof of having boarded the train before station X?

 

[pemma]

Hence my earlier question.

The OP may simply mean the exit from the platform rather than a barrier as such, but we'll be none the wiser on this or anything else until (or if) he/she returns.

It could also be some kind of crowd control barrier, rather than a ticket barrier or automated gates where one ticket gate which had an RPI on it had was open and the passenger walked through ignoring the RPI and was then stopped and treated as a fare evader.

 

[pemma]

I think the OP is referring to the Ticket buying facilities at the destination station being on the unpaid side of the barrier line whilst he/she was obviously approaching from the paid side

There might be no TVMs or ticket window the wrong side of the barrier but that doesn't automatically mean there wasn't a RPI with a portable machine.

 

[robbeech]

Do you have any proof of having boarded the train before station X?

Do they have any proof otherwise?

 

[matt_world2004]

Do you have any proof of having boarded the train before station X?

Google Timeline can offer such proof .

 

[skyhigh]

Google Timeline can offer such proof .

It'll show where a phone was, that doesn't mean you had it. There's little point hypothesising how to prove boarding locations with so little information.

However, the conductor did not manage to get to me before the final stop (Station X).

Do you have any proof of having boarded the train before station X?

Surely it's obvious the train was boarded before the final station anyway?

 

[pemma]

Google Timeline can offer such proof .

It's not 100% accurate and relies on you having GPS activated, something you wouldn't have activated for no reason if you had any sense. Why have something running that'll drain your battery if you don't need it? OK if you needed directions to the station you might have it activated but under normal circumstances you wouldn't.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Surely it's obvious the train was boarded before the final station anyway?

Indeed, and as there is no suggestion he has been accused of short-faring but straight fare dodging the discussion about Station X is pointless, even if Station X wasn't his destination.

Considering somebody desperate for help hasn’t bothered replying to any questions in 24 hours I think many of us can draw our own conclusions.

 

[matt_world2004]

It's not 100% accurate and relies on you having GPS activated, something you wouldn't have activated for no reason if you had any sense. Why have something running that'll drain your battery if you don't need it? OK if you needed directions to the station you might have it activated but under normal circumstances you wouldn't.

I do not have GPS activated on my phone and it's accurate enough to establish weather someone started their journey at a station I believe ordinarily even with GPS activated the phone does not use it for timeline instead ascertains where you are based on wifi and cellular triangulation GPS is only used for map requests

 

[pemma]

I do not have GPS activated on my phone and it's accurate enough to establish weather someone started their journey at a station I believe ordinarily even with GPS activated the phone does not use it for timeline instead ascertains where you are based on wifi and cellular triangulation GPS is only used for map requests

Do you mean wifi or your mobile data connection? What ever it uses I'd be surprised if it's 100% accurate, I'm well aware of anomalies which come up in Google Analytics even when ignoring incidents where Google admits it can't trace the exact location, so I'd be surprised if another Google 'product' is 100% accurate.

 

[matt_world2004]

Do you mean wifi or your mobile data connection? What ever it uses I'd be surprised if it's 100% accurate, I'm well aware of anomalies which come up in Google Analytics even when ignoring incidents where Google admits it can't trace the exact location, so I'd be surprised if another Google 'product' is 100% accurate.

Yes and unless the stations are less than 100 metres apart the accuracy would be enough to establish what station someone started their journey at .

 

[pemma]

Yes

So actually mean wifi and/or mobile data connection? I was questioning whether you meant wifi as unless you were travelling from a station which had free wifi I wouldn't think most passengers would have it enabled.

 

[matt_world2004]

So actually mean wifi and/or mobile data connection? I was questioning whether you meant wifi as unless you were travelling from a station which had free wifi I wouldn't think most passengers would have it enabled.

You know what all I was providing was a way for the op to establish they started from a station without ticketing facilities .google timeline only has to show them in the approxinate area to verify that. Even on a data only connection would be enough to that it might show the op was in a facility surrounding the station but it would then track their movements roughly based on the pattern of the railline even on data only

If you want to start a debate on the accuracy of google timeline may I suggest you do this on a forum that specialises in that matter.

 

[pemma]

You know what all I was providing was a way for the op to establish they started from a station without ticketing facilities .google timeline only has to show them in the approxinate area to verify that. Even on a data only connection would be enough to that it might show the op was in a facility surrounding the station but it would then track their movements roughly based on the pattern of the railline even on data only

If you want to start a debate on the accuracy of google timeline may I suggest you do this on a forum that specialises in that matter.

You're making a number of presumptions to even suggest that Google Timeline will be of any use - you're presuming they have an Android phone and haven't opted out of sharing location based information with Google. Then we know nothing about what station the original poster travelled from - it would be entirely plausible for someone to walk past the unstaffed Salford Central on their way to the staffed Manchester Victoria, if they did that would use would any location information be?

 

[Clip]

You know what all I was providing was a way for the op to establish they started from a station without ticketing facilities .google timeline only has to show them in the approxinate area to verify that. Even on a data only connection would be enough to that it might show the op was in a facility surrounding the station but it would then track their movements roughly based on the pattern of the railline even on data only

If you want to start a debate on the accuracy of google timeline may I suggest you do this on a forum that specialises in that matter.

I have no idea how you get these rather inventive ideas about proving something - its not even relevant to the case in question at all and im not sure that using something which isnt accurate would be able to stand up in court either should a prosecution about where the OP started ever came to be.

 

[matt_world2004]

You're making a number of presumptions to even suggest that Google Timeline will be of any use - you're presuming they have an Android phone and haven't opted out of sharing location based information with Google. Then we know nothing about what station the original poster travelled from - it would be entirely plausible for someone to walk past the unstaffed Salford Central on their way to the staffed Manchester Victoria, if they did that would use would any location information be?

I did not make any assumptions I suggested a way that the op has of significantly proving they were at an unstaffed station, if that way is not suitable for them they are free not to use it , but even using the hypothetical you listed above. Google Timeline records times at location, it records modes now my guess is that if someone is at a location it would be a huge coincidence if their walk matched exactly with a trains arrival and departure time (they would have to be very quick walkers )

 

[AlterEgo]

Speculation is useless until the OP returns.