£315 return for Tamworth to Birmingham?

[All Line Rover]

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Tamworth costs £469.40 (standard class, £288.40).

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Birmingham, via Tamworth, costs £784.50 (standard class, £295).

Am I missing something here? Since when has the latter journey cost almost £800 return? How does this pricing structure make sense?

Tamworth to Birmingham is a 20 minute journey. A first class Anytime Day Return fare from Tamworth to Birmingham costs £27. If returning on a separate day, 2x 1st Anytime Day Singles cost £43.40.

 

[JonathanH]

Edinburgh to Tamworth priced by Avanti West Coast. Edinburgh to Birmingham priced by CrossCountry.

Different policies over time have resulted in inconsistent fares.

The fare from Edinburgh to Derby (and Burton-upon-Trent) is £781.50, so Tamworth is just a dip in the pricing.

CrossCountry only having 26 first class seats on each train may have a bearing on the fares.

 

[ASX_Terranova]

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Tamworth costs £469.40 (standard class, £288.40).

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Birmingham, via Tamworth, costs £784.50 (standard class, £295).

Am I missing something here? Since when has the latter journey cost almost £800 return? How does this pricing structure make sense?

Tamworth to Birmingham is a 20 minute journey. A first class Anytime Day Return fare from Tamworth to Birmingham costs £27. If returning on a separate day, 2x 1st Anytime Day Singles cost £43.40.

How much is an Edinburgh - Birmingham Avanti ticket both for singles and returns?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

These fares are never purchased - virtually everyone on CrossCountry and Avanti are using Advance fares. Because of journey planners now tending to show the cheaper Advance fares by default, it's unlikely they are ever seen by prospective customers, except perhaps when a train is set up as mandatory reservation and it is close to/at capacity and a TOC wants to put people off using it.

They still exist primarily for revenue protection and prosecution purposes - either to sting people for the full Anytime fare when they breach various conditions or to claim as costs in a successful prosecution.

Every now and again, XC do reduce the first class fares when they get to a level that means bad publicity - last did it for something involving Kyle of Lochalsh I believe that was over £1000.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Edinburgh to Milton Keynes is £553.20 first class open return

 

[Sun Chariot]

Is it cheaper

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Tamworth costs £469.40 (standard class, £288.40).

A first class Anytime Return fare from Edinburgh to Birmingham, via Tamworth, costs £784.50 (standard class, £295).

If you're receptive to flying from Edinburgh to Birmingham International, not only will it be quicker but (using Skyscanner website info) far more keenly priced.
Then just the Birmingham to Tamworth rail ticket.

 

[Belperpete]

Is it cheaper

If you're receptive to flying from Edinburgh to Birmingham International, not only will it be quicker but (using Skyscanner website info) far more keenly priced.
Then just the Birmingham to Tamworth rail ticket.

Are you including the time spent queuing at Birmingham airport in that? Particularly for the return journey, where you are currently advised to arrive several hours before departure.

 

[Haywain]

Is it cheaper

If you're receptive to flying from Edinburgh to Birmingham International, not only will it be quicker but (using Skyscanner website info) far more keenly priced.
Then just the Birmingham to Tamworth rail ticket.

How much is it for first class?

 

[Sun Chariot]

How much is it for first class?

First class flight? I've never seen first class on the domestic flights I've used around UK, NI, ROI and Chl Isles.
If you mean rail ticket to Tamworth, the OP's final paragraph quotes the fares.

Are you including the time spent queuing at Birmingham airport in that? Particularly for the return journey, where you are currently advised to arrive several hours before departure.

Carry on luggage & domestic flightt. I used to give myself 90 minutes headway when I was flying out of Dublin, Edinburgh or Glasgow back to Southampton or London City.
Doing that out of City, Soton, Guernsey or Belfast, I'd alllow 1 hour.

 

[Belperpete]

Carry on luggage, domestic flightt. I used to give myself 90 minutes headway when flying from. Edinburgh or Glasgow back to Southampton.
Doing that out of Soton, Guernsey or Belfast, I'd alllow 1 hour.

I take it that you haven't flown from Birmingham recently then? You should allow at least couple of hours to even get into the terminal building.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I take it that you haven't flown from Birmingham recently then? You should allow at least couple of hours to even get into the terminal building.

Lordy. Is any transport method easy in the UK now?

 

[75A]

I find Birmingham one of the worst airports I use, always try to get a connection anywhere but there (flying from either Belfast Airport)

 

[Hadders]

These fares are never purchased - virtually everyone on CrossCountry and Avanti are using Advance fares. Because of journey planners now tending to show the cheaper Advance fares by default, it's unlikely they are ever seen by prospective customers, except perhaps when a train is set up as mandatory reservation and it is close to/at capacity and a TOC wants to put people off using it.

They still exist primarily for revenue protection and prosecution purposes - either to sting people for the full Anytime fare when they breach various conditions or to claim as costs in a successful prosecution.

Every now and again, XC do reduce the first class fares when they get to a level that means bad publicity - last did it for something involving Kyle of Lochalsh I believe that was over £1000.

I wonder how many of these fares do actually get sold? We’re told no-one buys them but is that really the case?

In any event, when DfT/RDG/Treasury get their way and introduce LNER style pricing with the abolition of off peak tickets these are the sort of prices passengers travelling on popular services at short notice will have to pay. Just look at fares between London and Newcastle/Edinburgh.

 

[Sun Chariot]

@All Line Rover How feasible flying from Edinburgh to East Midlands and then a train to Tamworth? And ditto reverse?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I wonder how many of these fares do actually get sold? We’re told no-one buys them but is that really the case?

In any event, when DfT/RDG/Treasury get their way and introduce LNER style pricing with the abolition of off peak tickets these are the sort of prices passengers travelling on popular services at short notice will have to pay. Just look at fares between London and Newcastle/Edinburgh.

You'll be able to find out in a few months, when the TOCs are nationalised and subject to FOI!

 

[voyagerdude220]

There are also examples where journeys can be completed for substantially less than the Cross Country set fare by purchasing different tickets which are priced by Avanti and other TOCs, which are often valid earlier than 09:30 or sometimes not restricted at all.

I recently saved someone over £500 by offering them the perfectly valid but much cheaper combination of tickets and a family railcard. Even the elderly person I was advising asked me if it was "that thing she'd heard about online called split ticketing."

Of course officially I'm not supposed to offer split tickets without being asked to, but there's nothing stopping pax going online and potentially finding these savings whilst avoiding the ticket office completely.

 

[ServerHoster]

@All Line Rover How feasible flying from Edinburgh to East Midlands and then a train to Tamworth? And ditto reverse?

Well considering there isn't even a flight from Edinburgh to East Midlands...

 

[BeijingDave]

First class flight? I've never seen first class on the domestic flights I've used around UK, NI, ROI and Chl Isles.
If you mean rail ticket to Tamworth, the OP's final paragraph quotes the fares.


Carry on luggage & domestic flightt. I used to give myself 90 minutes headway when I was flying out of Dublin, Edinburgh or Glasgow back to Southampton or London City.
Doing that out of City, Soton, Guernsey or Belfast, I'd alllow 1 hour.

Splitting hairs there. Business Class is the equivalent, and is available on BA Manchester to London, for one.

First Class refers to a usually properly enclosed compartment on international flights.

Obviously, nobody needs a compartment with lie-flat bed on UK domestic flights.

 

[Andy Pacer]

@All Line Rover How feasible flying from Edinburgh to East Midlands and then a train to Tamworth? And ditto reverse?

Well considering there isn't even a flight from Edinburgh to East Midlands...

And then the difficulties getting from East Midlands Airport to East Midlands Parkway station!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Splitting hairs there. Business Class is the equivalent, and is available on BA Manchester to London, for one.

UK/CHI/ROI domestic routes I've flown over the decades, were all "one class only". I'm 6' 6", I always arranged for a seat in the front row (legroom by exit).

Well considering there isn't even a flight from Edinburgh to East Midlands...

Well it was worth a try

And then the difficulties getting from East Midlands Airport to East Midlands Parkway station!

I'd wondered if it would still be quicker than the quoted two-plus hours' lead-time required for Birmingham International, even with domestics.
But, as there isn't a flight from Edinburgh to East Midlands

 

[island]

UK/CHI/ROI domestic routes I've flown over the decades, were all "one class only". I'm 6" 6", I always arranged for a seat in the front row (legroom by exit).

Well, nowadays British Airways does business and economy class on all of them. Though perhaps we are veering off topic.

 

[Haywain]

Well, nowadays British Airways does business and economy class on all of them. Though perhaps we are veering off topic.

Slightly, although my point was that comparing a first class walk-up rail fare with an economy class air fare is not an appropriate comparison.

 

[Scotty]

And then the difficulties getting from East Midlands Airport to East Midlands Parkway station!

Would be better getting the Skylink bus to Long Eaton/Derby/Nottingham and then the train from there.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Slightly, although my point was that comparing a first class walk-up rail fare with an economy class air fare is not an appropriate comparison.

As a price comparison, I totally agree. My thinking stems from my work travel, 2005 to 2008, London to Manchester midweek and back Friday evening.
if Alliance flights were available, then I'd fly London City to Manchester; the time saving (I lived just 5 mins from LCY) trumped being in economy seat.
If no flight available, then it was an hour's traipse to Euston and minimum (typically longer) 2 hours' trip to Piccadilly. I travelled first on those, primary because the standard class environment was too noisy and too cramped to work in.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Would be better getting the Skylink bus to Long Eaton/Derby/Nottingham and then the train from there.

Precisely. The DRT is good but requires some pre planning.

 

[redreni]

These fares are never purchased

Whyever not, I wonder?

Every now and again, XC do reduce the first class fares when they get to a level that means bad publicity - last did it for something involving Kyle of Lochalsh I believe that was over £1000.

The fare highlighted by the OP will adversely affect the reputation of the rail industry to the extent people see it, in my humble opinion. And I'm not entirely sure I agree nobody is going to look for a flexible fare on a journey like this - if you're going that far you might be staying awhile, you might not know exactly how long and you might want the flexibility of an open return. You might even want an overnight break of journey on the return. Fares like this only send a signal - intended or not - that people should drive.

 

[BeijingDave]

Whyever not, I wonder?

The fare highlighted by the OP will adversely affect the reputation of the rail industry to the extent people see it, in my humble opinion. And I'm not entirely sure I agree nobody is going to look for a flexible fare on a journey like this - if you're going that far you might be staying awhile, you might not know exactly how long and you might want the flexibility of an open return. You might even want an overnight break of journey on the return. Fares like this only send a signal - intended or not - that people should drive.

It does adversely affect the reputation of the rail industry, especially given the substitutes available.

My regular journey in the UK is between Warrington and London and all three modes of transport are easily doable (M56 to Manchester Airport is very easy for me)

 

[800001]

And then the difficulties getting from East Midlands Airport to East Midlands Parkway station!

As long as between 9-5 there is an hourly shuttle bus which takes 14 minutes, outside those hours taxis available.
Hardly difficult!

 

[Andy Pacer]

As long as between 9-5 there is an hourly shuttle bus which takes 14 minutes, outside those hours taxis available.
Hardly difficult!

Interesting, the airport website says the DRT (which I already mentioned) is available, no mention of an hourly shuttle but hey ho it's "hardly difficult"!

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[Belperpete]

I find Birmingham one of the worst airports I use, always try to get a connection anywhere but there (flying from either Belfast Airport)

It certainly is at present! But hopefully things will get back to normal. When I lived in Derby, I had easy rail access to a whole range of airports, Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton, Manchester, Birmingham, and of course East Midlands. While East Midlands was easily my favourite, travel options were very limited (particularly after the demise of BMI). Birmingham beat all the others hands down. Large range of destinations, but not the hell holes that Luton, Gatwick, Heathrow and Manchester are.