£440,000 spend to include Wi-Fi for Metrolink and Metroshuttle

[pemma]

Last year, Manchester was selected as one of 10 UK cities to get £10.74m to pay for ultra-fast broadband and wi-fi from the Urban Broadband Fund to boost the economy.

Originally the bulk of the money was to be spent on businesses, but strict EU rules which restrict state spending where there’s a commercial alternative led to a rethink.

The new scheme means £440,000 will be spent on free wi-fi in more than 130 public buildings including libraries, leisure centre, adult education sites and other facilities by spring 2015.

Commuters will also be able to surf the net while on the Metrolink and the city centre’s free Metroshuttle bus thanks to a £440,000 spend.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ws/free-wi-fi-plan-manchesters-public-4883197

Wouldn't it have made more sense to invest the Wi-Fi on longer distance bus services and some train services (maybe the class 323 operated services which stay in the Manchester area)? People making short journeys may not even have time to check their emails between boarding and alighting.

 

[hacman]

The back-end infrastructure for the WiFi service can be used for a whole number of other things though - from condition based monitoring, to digital signage and passenger information, to remote download of CCTV and OTMR data.

Such applications might not be in scope at the time of the initial deployment, but once the infrastructure is there, it makes other such projects much simpler.

Jon

 

[WatcherZero]

Other way around, they laid a fibre optic network around the new and existing network for phase 3 for signalling, ticket machines, platform information and announcements, etc.. (and a secure wi-fi network for communication with vehicles) and their looking to return the excess capacity of the fibre back to the public, previous plan was for businesses to get cheap or free broadband if they were near a line.

As to usage the average journey length on Metrolink is 6.5 miles, more than enough time to check a few emails, longest routes are around an hours journey with East-Didsbury-Rochdale almost an hour and a half, plenty of time to have a browse or play on your mobile.

 

[rebmcr]

a secure wi-fi network for communication with vehicles

Actual 802.11 Wi-Fi? That would seem an odd choice for a WWAN.

 

[pemma]

As to usage the average journey length on Metrolink is 6.5 miles, more than enough time to check a few emails, longest routes are around an hours journey with East-Didsbury-Rochdale almost an hour and a half, plenty of time to have a browse or play on your mobile.

Depends on how full the tram is. I doubt people will want to check emails if someone is breathing over their shoulder.

While it may be difficult to try to do it standing up in the Sale area given how violently the M5000s sway in that area. With the new trams only having around 50 seats, with Piccadilly-Altrincham services running as single trams and Bury-Altrincham services most likely to be terminated short at Timperley standing is very common on Piccadilly-Altrincham services.

 

[WatcherZero]

Actual 802.11 Wi-Fi? That would seem an odd choice for a WWAN.

Yep, since theres a fibre backbone and its an urban area you dont have to resort to thinks like celluar networks, sattelites or other technologies that you find in more isolated application where you could be miles from civilisation.

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Markets/Security/Documents/On_the_move_Issue_10/

 

[jon0844]

Depends on how full the tram is. I doubt people will want to check emails if someone is breathing over their shoulder.

People stand up using their smartphones all the time on buses and trains with coverage (overground) and it's only because Wi-Fi is pretty poorly advertised on the Tube that you don't see more people underground using their phone (or tablet/laptop).

I doubt many care that you can usually see what they're reading/typing if you're standing right next to them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ws/free-wi-fi-plan-manchesters-public-4883197

Wouldn't it have made more sense to invest the Wi-Fi on longer distance bus services and some train services (maybe the class 323 operated services which stay in the Manchester area)?

I am sure the point that you make here would have been one that would have received some attention at the time when the decision was made.

 

[pemma]

I am sure the point that you make here would have been one that would have received some attention at the time when the decision was made.

And they probably decided Metrolink is Manchester's highest priority and doesn't go outside Greater Manchester while the 323s go in to Cheshire.

 

[rebmcr]

a secure wi-fi network for communication with vehicles

Actual 802.11 Wi-Fi? That would seem an odd choice for a WWAN.

Yep, since theres a fibre backbone and its an urban area you dont have to resort to thinks like celluar networks, sattelites or other technologies that you find in more isolated application where you could be miles from civilisation.

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Markets/Security/Documents/On_the_move_Issue_10/

I knew that was fishy. The document you linked very clearly states it's a custom mesh "similar to WiFi". As a networking professional, I'm 99% sure it'll only be layman-similar (as far as 'multiple base stations with wireless aerials').

 

[WatcherZero]

Thales description:

Thales’ SelTrac is the world’s most widely used communications-based train control system. And with Thales’ radio-based transmission system, it’s even easier for metro operators to harness the capacity benefits of SelTrac CBTC

The solution uses the 802.11 radio protocol, first deployed by Thales in the United States in 2004. It’s an open standard, so there’s no supplier lock-in and components can be purchased off the shelf.

Thales’ radio incorporates authentication protocols to ensure that messages picked up by trains have come from a trusted source. “This goes beyond encryption” emphasises Dr. Bantin. “Thales’ authentication process uses the IPSec open standard with a dynamic key management system that provides maximum security from the train control computer right through to the train itself.”

http://www.thalesgroup.com/Markets/...tent/INNOVATION__Train_control_goes_wireless/

 

[edwin_m]

Seltrac is a transmission based train control system for automatic driving of trains, and is fitted to DLR etc. Metrolink is (or will be) driven on line of sight with no signalling except for advisory tramway signals at junctions. So while Thales is also supplying the Metrolink tram management system, there is no obvious techical similarity between the two.

 

[WatcherZero]

Handles tram position tracking, route setting, point switching, and junction prioritys, also only switches points when the trams ontop of them to prevent pedestrians getting caught in them, also allows two trams with the same route code to shadow each other to reduce headways. One of the first times mesh radio has been used for position tracking on a tramway.

Essentially its the Croydon LOS implementation taken to the next level.

 

[edwin_m]

Metrolink TMS may share some elements of the radio system but otherwise is nothing to do with Seltrac.