04:22 Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport

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adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Something that has been puzzling me for a while is to why this service departs GLC at 04:22, and not at the standard time of 05:09 like the subsequent departures do so.

Is this a throwback to a former Edinburgh Waverley - Carstairs short working?

Is this to change drivers at Carstairs for the Edinburgh portion of the sleeper?

Furthermore, this also has a huge amount of running time between GLC and Carlisle, where the normal timetable pattern is resumed. Would it be possible at some point in the future to have this departing GLC at 05:09, therefore making all southbound departures every 2 hours at approx xx09?
 
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PHILIPE

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Something that has been puzzling me for a while is to why this service departs GLC at 04:22, and not at the standard time of 05:09 like the subsequent departures do so.

Is this a throwback to a former Edinburgh Waverley - Carstairs short working?

Is this to change drivers at Carstairs for the Edinburgh portion of the sleeper?

Furthermore, this also has a huge amount of running time between GLC and Carlisle, where the normal timetable pattern is resumed. Would it be possible at some point in the future to have this departing GLC at 05:09, therefore making all southbound departures every 2 hours at approx xx09?

Where you get these variations at night and morning it is usually to encompass Engineering Work with possible diversions.
 

me123

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A few things that affect the time that I can see from a quick comparison on RTT:

It avoids Motherwell and instead runs via Mossend and the Wishaw deviation, presumably for route learning/retention purposes. (c10 minutes extra)
A long stop in Carstairs to allow the faster VTWC service to overtake it. (c15 minutes)
Longer than usual stop in Carlisle. (c 8 minutes extra)

That all adds at least a good half hour extra, not including time taken to decelerate into and accelerate away from Carstairs.
 

thenorthern

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Side note this train is officially the most overcrowded train in the United Kingdom.

And yes late night and early morning trains have strange departure times so that they can factor in diversions and speed restrictions when engineering works take place.
 

dk1

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Side note this train is officially the most overcrowded train in the United Kingdom.

And yes late night and early morning trains have strange departure times so that they can factor in diversions and speed restrictions when engineering works take place.

It's one of those silly 'most overcrowded trains'. Like saying the 05:05 Penzance to Paddington is rammed when the only standees are after Reading. Bet those not in the know imagine this middle of the night train leaving Glasgow thinking those poor people are crushed in for hours. Nasty train company :lol:
 

MidnightFlyer

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I thought the OP was aimed more towards asking why it didn't just originate ex-Glasgow later (presumably after the VT departure) and avoid the wait at Carstairs and huge dwells at Lockerbie and Carlisle? I know it goes via Bellshill and Holytown but that doesn't add phenomenally to the journey time.
 

najaB

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Furthermore, this also has a huge amount of running time between GLC and Carlisle, where the normal timetable pattern is resumed.
According to Realtime Trains it's pathed as a DMU where the later departures are timed for a 350 EMU - that might explain some of the difference in running time given the gradients. That said, 185s are good hill climbers.
 

30907

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I know it goes via Bellshill and Holytown but that doesn't add phenomenally to the journey time.

And so does the Euston that overtakes it at Carstairs - and has no allowances en route. On inspection it does seem odd timetabling - but perhaps the effect is to allow it to run via the GSW if needed (whereas the Virgin would have to be bustituted?)
 

me123

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There's many possible diversionary routes that could be taken, for example via Whifflet or Cathcart (assuming that TPE sign those routes). It may well be that the train runs via different lines if it needs to, for example because of engineering work, and it's deemed simpler to have the train at a consistent time in the morning. Albeit I wouldn't be impressed to have to get up for a 4am train to Manchester that takes its time!
 

PHILIPE

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1A40 Night Sleeper from Penzance to Paddington has so much time built into it for Engineering Work, it can be 80L and still arrive Paddington on time. A recent count revealed possible diversionary routes could reach double figures.
Similarly 1C99 in the reverse direction.
 

Starmill

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I'm pretty sure I've seen this train booked via Cathcart with no change to passenger times. Of course it's not like that takes so much longer either, and I could be wrong!
 
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