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07:00 Dorking to London unscheduled stop

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pne508

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The 07:00 Dorking to London Waterloo runs semi fast between Epsom and Raynes Park (missing out Ewell, Stoneleigh and Motspur Park). This morning, after as we were leaving Worcester Park the guard announces that due to the severe late running of the train (about 7 or 8 minutes) we would be calling at Motspur Park, then running fast to Waterloo.
I understand the theory behind cancelling all intermediate stations in order to allow a train to catch up time, SWR do it all the time. But can anyone explain the thinking behind stopping a train somewhere where the train was not booked to stop in order to turf a load of passengers off, then ignoring all booked stations. I've been commuting around London for the best part of 20 years and this one is a new one on me.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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The 07:00 Dorking to London Waterloo runs semi fast between Epsom and Raynes Park (missing out Ewell, Stoneleigh and Motspur Park). This morning, after as we were leaving Worcester Park the guard announces that due to the severe late running of the train (about 7 or 8 minutes) we would be calling at Motspur Park, then running fast to Waterloo.
I understand the theory behind cancelling all intermediate stations in order to allow a train to catch up time, SWR do it all the time. But can anyone explain the thinking behind stopping a train somewhere where the train was not booked to stop in order to turf a load of passengers off, then ignoring all booked stations. I've been commuting around London for the best part of 20 years and this one is a new one on me.

It'll go on the fast lines beyond Raynes Park.

Adding a Motspur Park stop allows those wanting the intermediate stations to change there for the following service from Chessington, which was very likely not as heavily loaded as it hasn't come very far.

Using Raynes Park for that is not practical as the platforms there are rather narrower and it is a far busier station - the platforms would be crowded enough without depositing a load of intermediate passengers there as well..
 

Steve Bray

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Using Raynes Park for that is not practical as the platforms there are rather narrower and it is a far busier station - the platforms would be crowded enough without depositing a load of intermediate passengers there as well..

I've seen this written before but in reality with trains every 3 or 4 minutes, I never see crowds 10-deep on the platform at Raynes Park.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I've seen this written before but in reality with trains every 3 or 4 minutes, I never see crowds 10-deep on the platform at Raynes Park.

That's true, but a prolonged stop turfing a load of people out while others are getting on wouldn't be idea; I think the railway is right to make the change at Motspur Park where there is a lot more space available, and fewer passengers waiting as well.

I've certainly seen crowds five deep at Raynes Park in the morning peak on occasion.
 

bb21

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By the time the train has spent an indeterminate amount of time at Raynes Park it may well have missed the gap on the fast line and back to square one, or the road has already been given on the assumption of a normal station dwell but suddenly took longer for whatever reason and it is now just delaying trains on the fast line.

Easier to allow it to build up speed from Motspur Park and priority being given at the junction to whoever comes first. Even if a gap needs to be made for it on the fast line, the delay to trains behind would be minimal if the train continues on the move approaching the junction.

No comfort to people needing intermediate stations, of course, as Raynes Park allows some additional connection opportunities, so the decision on where to run fast from really needs to be taken dependent on the specific circumstances on the day to minimise disruption.
 

Steve Bray

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By coincidence I was on the 0732 from Dorking to Waterloo this morning. This left EPS around 6 minutes late and shortly after leaving the dreaded announcement was made that "due to late running....." etc. The partial good news was that the train WOULD call at Raynes Park, and then run fast to Waterloo. As we pulled in to Platform 1, the 0804 pulled into Platform 2, so it was a quick change. There were a lot of passengers in the rear couple of carriages who had to alight on the new extended platform which is narrow and that did look crowded but they soon made their way to Platform 2.

Incidentally, since May, the 0732 from DKG often gets held at a signal outside Leatherhead due to late running of the Southern service from Guildford to London Bridge
 
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By coincidence I was on the 0732 from Dorking to Waterloo this morning. This left EPS around 6 minutes late and shortly after leaving the dreaded announcement was made that "due to late running....." etc. The partial good news was that the train WOULD call at Raynes Park, and then run fast to Waterloo. As we pulled in to Platform 1, the 0804 pulled into Platform 2, so it was a quick change. There were a lot of passengers in the rear couple of carriages who had to alight on the new extended platform which is narrow and that did look crowded but they soon made their way to Platform 2.

Incidentally, since May, the 0732 from DKG often gets held at a signal outside Leatherhead due to late running of the Southern service from Guildford to London Bridge

The 0702 from Dorking did the same this morning, as it was also late at Worcester Park. It remained on the slow line the whole way so didn't really regain much time. Not sure why the timetable is not working as the Dorking trains used to be mostly on time at Worcester Park in the morning. I have been on Epsom starters numerous times when they have run non-stop from Motspur Park, even if running only a few minutes late. Again, they often remain on the slow line, which calls into question whether there is any real advantage in omitting stops. Motspur Park is a poor place to run fast from as the following train comes through from Effingham or Guildford and is usually pretty full by Worcester Park. The Chessington train follows that one from Motspur Park.
 

TEW

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The Dorking trains are now tightly timed with Southern services in the am peak, about 5 minutes behind them between Leatherhead and Epsom. Any delay on the Southern services has a knock of effect on the SWR Dorking trains. Prior to the May timetable change it was the Guildford/Effingham trains that were always being delayed by Southern trains.
 

Kite159

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Just remember every time a train skips a station it's classed as a failure for the stats.

SWR loves to skip stations putting two fingers up at their suffering commuters, no wonder why usage is falling. Passengers just can't trust the railway to get them to where they want to get to without being forced to change to another busy train because the one they were on was a couple minutes late due to poor timetable planning.
 

Bletchleyite

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Just remember every time a train skips a station it's classed as a failure for the stats.

SWR loves to skip stations putting two fingers up at their suffering commuters, no wonder why usage is falling. Passengers just can't trust the railway to get them to where they want to get to without being forced to change to another busy train because the one they were on was a couple minutes late due to poor timetable planning.

It's interesting that on the south WCML this approach is almost never taken - instead, the general approach is to run everything as booked even if it all ends up very late, then to sort the mess out between the peaks by way of a few off-peak cancellations to get everything back where it should be for the evening peak.

It was also almost never done on Merseyrail until the most recent franchise (which seems, by contrast, to think running fast is a solution to all the world's ills) - instead, if a train ended up 15 minutes late it just effectively became the next one, though you'd need a cancellation or two to tidy the situation as far as traincrew went.
 

Steve Bray

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Yesterday's 0752 from Epsom to Waterloo was changed to run fast from Motspur Park to Waterloo due to congestion (which was particularly bad). In fact though, I saw it pull into Raynes Park, and stay there for 90 seconds, with its doors firmly shut, until it got the signal for the fast line. This then caused hold-ups on the fast line to several services.
 
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