• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

09.47 Leeds To Carlisle

Status
Not open for further replies.

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,214
For those interested here is a rough timetable for next May when it's due to change;

From Leeds to Carlisle
0519 - Does not stop at Gargrave, Long Preston and Dent
0746 - Does not stop at Gargrave, Hellifield, Long Preston, Ribblehead and Garsdale
0912 - Does not stop at Langwathby, Lazonby and Armathwaite
1120 - All stations
1320 - Does not stop at Gargrave and Long Preston
1520 - Does not stop at Gargrave and Long Preston
1719 - All stations
1819 - Does not stop at Gargrave and Long Preston
1949 - Terminates as Ribblehead. All stations

From Carlisle
0551 - All stations
0927 - Does not stop at Long Preston and Gargrave
1134 - All stations
1340 - Express Appleby, Kirkby Stephen, Settle, Skipton etc
1427 - Does not stop at Long Preston, Hellifield and Gargrave
1627 - Does not stop at Long Preston and Gargrave
1824 - All stations
2019 - Express Appleby, Kirkby Stephen, Settle, Skipton etc
2145 - Starts at Ribblehead, all stations. Runs 15 mins behind the 2019


Some interesting changes!

According to real time trains, the Leeds-Carlisle service is going to be even sparser than what trainmananthon was suggested back in August.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LDS/to/CAR/2018/06/06/0000-2359

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CAR/to/LDS/2018/06/06/0000-2359

Just 8 trains out and 6 back if I'm reading it right and nothing leaving Carlisle between 1450 and 1824! That's really going to affect the day trip leisure market as surely leaving Carlisle at 1450 is too early and 1824 is too late. And as a keen walker I wouldn't want to be stuck on Garsdale or Dent station if the 1824 is cancelled and the next one isn't till after nightfall!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joined
4 Jan 2011
Messages
448
Location
Nelson
For now, disregard any new timetables you see for the S&C as they are all wrong!

Apparently there won’t be enough units to run to this new timetable.

When the next official one gets shown to us on the S&C I’ll update you all, but for now don’t go by what RTT or anything else says.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,047
Location
Airedale
According to real time trains, the Leeds-Carlisle service is going to be even sparser than what trainmananthon was suggested back in August.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LDS/to/CAR/2018/06/06/0000-2359

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CAR/to/LDS/2018/06/06/0000-2359

Just 8 trains out and 6 back if I'm reading it right and nothing leaving Carlisle between 1450 and 1824! That's really going to affect the day trip leisure market as surely leaving Carlisle at 1450 is too early and 1824 is too late. And as a keen walker I wouldn't want to be stuck on Garsdale or Dent station if the 1824 is cancelled and the next one isn't till after nightfall!

Even if RTT is right, and trainmanathon says not, 8 northbound is exactly the same as his draft and what goes up has to come down....
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
39,008
Location
Yorks
If there aren't enough trains to run the proposed timetable, will they revert to the current one, or will units be pilfered for elsewhere ?
 

chrisncal54

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2016
Messages
703
Location
Garsdale Head
According to real time trains, the Leeds-Carlisle service is going to be even sparser than what trainmananthon was suggested back in August.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LDS/to/CAR/2018/06/06/0000-2359

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CAR/to/LDS/2018/06/06/0000-2359

Just 8 trains out and 6 back if I'm reading it right and nothing leaving Carlisle between 1450 and 1824! That's really going to affect the day trip leisure market as surely leaving Carlisle at 1450 is too early and 1824 is too late. And as a keen walker I wouldn't want to be stuck on Garsdale or Dent station if the 1824 is cancelled and the next one isn't till after nightfall!

The S&C timetable remains a wait and see. It will clearly not be worse than the 8 each way as now; but a) it's a mainline, that's perceived as a branch; b) timetables are designed ultimately for regular users not occasional walkers.
 

chrisncal54

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2016
Messages
703
Location
Garsdale Head
Even if RTT is right, and trainmanathon says not, 8 northbound is exactly the same as his draft and what goes up has to come down....
RTT is rarely right for tomorrow let alone May! We have eight each way now; that won't change though timings may. Wait and see is all that matters.
 

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
RTT is rarely right for tomorrow let alone May! We have eight each way now; that won't change though timings may. Wait and see is all that matters.

Talk about unfairly knocking an excellent resource.

That’s rather harsh re the current times given the data is coming directly from the railway systems.

What are you basing that comment on, as unless you’re referring to Q paths which are optional paths then that bears no resemblance to my experience.

As for timetables in May - I’ve repeatedly said here that people should wait until the end of this month to comment on the schedules, as there’s a significant chance that anything loaded already is incomplete or may change.
 

chrisncal54

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2016
Messages
703
Location
Garsdale Head
Talk about unfairly knocking an excellent resource.

That’s rather harsh re the current times given the data is coming directly from the railway systems.

What are you basing that comment on, as unless you’re referring to Q paths which are optional paths then that bears no resemblance to my experience.

As for timetables in May - I’ve repeatedly said here that people should wait until the end of this month to comment on the schedules, as there’s a significant chance that anything loaded already is incomplete or may change.

Thanks for you reply; I agree that when RTT is wrong it's because systems are wrong. Who cares about my experience, or yours: it's what it is for each of us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

berneyarms

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
2,812
Location
Dublin
Thanks for you reply; I agree that when RTT is wrong it's because systems are wrong. Who cares about my experience, or yours: it's what it is for each of us.

Well you seemed to criticising RTT unfairly in my view - hence I asked what was wrong? Nothing more than that.

I’m merely reminding people that there’s a strong probability that what they’re looking at post-May on RTT is not going to be complete right now. Analysing incomplete schedules is rather pointless to be honest. Once we get to the end of February they should hopefully all be complete.

I think you’re taking my post a bit too personally.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,699
Not sure if it's been mentioned in other threads, but the new TT has the current SuO Sheffield-Carlisle Class 1 train starting from Nottingham at 09.19. Excellent change all round IMO, giving both an earlier service north from Nottingham and a through service to Carlisle for Glasgow.

Extra return service over the S&C also greatly reduces the gaps.

EDIT: there are actually two new return SuO services - plus the summer Blackpool-Carlisle return - so the service is greatly improved.
 
Last edited:

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,624
Not sure if it's been mentioned in other threads, but the new TT has the current SuO Sheffield-Carlisle Class 1 train starting from Nottingham at 09.19. Excellent change all round IMO, giving both an earlier service north from Nottingham and a through service to Carlisle for Glasgow.

Extra return service over the S&C also greatly reduces the gaps.

EDIT: there are actually two new return SuO services - plus the summer Blackpool-Carlisle return - so the service is greatly improved.

Love to see better connection via Carlisle from Leeds to Glasgow .
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,266
Location
West of Andover
Not sure if it's been mentioned in other threads, but the new TT has the current SuO Sheffield-Carlisle Class 1 train starting from Nottingham at 09.19. Excellent change all round IMO, giving both an earlier service north from Nottingham and a through service to Carlisle for Glasgow.

Extra return service over the S&C also greatly reduces the gaps.

EDIT: there are actually two new return SuO services - plus the summer Blackpool-Carlisle return - so the service is greatly improved.

Shame the 14:55 Sundays Hellifield - Blackpool service no longer seems to exist in the timetable (connected with the 12:59 Carlisle - Leeds) (unless it hasn't been loaded into the system yet)
 

Mike99

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2011
Messages
656
Location
G E M L
Shame the 14:55 Sundays Hellifield - Blackpool service no longer seems to exist in the timetable (connected with the 12:59 Carlisle - Leeds) (unless it hasn't been loaded into the system yet)
Although the 08:40 Blackpool North to Carlisle via Clitheroe and Hellifield, 1M16, is in RTT for Sunday 20th May and at least the following Sunday, I'm on an ALR over the timetable change weekend so will have to fit this in. Followed over the S&C by the 09:19 Nottingham - Carlisle, 1Y18, via Sheffield and Leeds.
 

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,214
Not sure if it's been mentioned in other threads, but the new TT has the current SuO Sheffield-Carlisle Class 1 train starting from Nottingham at 09.19. Excellent change all round IMO, giving both an earlier service north from Nottingham and a through service to Carlisle for Glasgow.

Extra return service over the S&C also greatly reduces the gaps.

EDIT: there are actually two new return SuO services - plus the summer Blackpool-Carlisle return - so the service is greatly improved.

The SuO Sheffield to Carlisle service will still depart Sheffield at 1017, exactly the same as in the current TT, so I'm not sure how you see that as an improvement. And I don't think there'll be hundreds of Nottingham residents queueing up to spend 4 and a half hours travelling to Carlisle on a Sunday!

And to get back to the purpose of this thread, Northern have indeed scrapped the 0947 Leeds to Carlisle as well as the 0849, replacing them with just one train at 0919 with a gap of an hour and half between trains instead of the current hourly service at that time in the morning.

Yes, technically there may be an additional service or two, but if they're at times when few people want to travel, that's not really an improvement, is it?
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,047
Location
Airedale
Shame the 14:55 Sundays Hellifield - Blackpool service no longer seems to exist in the timetable (connected with the 12:59 Carlisle - Leeds) (unless it hasn't been loaded into the system yet)
It has only run in winter when the Carlisle one doesn't.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
39,008
Location
Yorks
The SuO Sheffield to Carlisle service will still depart Sheffield at 1017, exactly the same as in the current TT, so I'm not sure how you see that as an improvement. And I don't think there'll be hundreds of Nottingham residents queueing up to spend 4 and a half hours travelling to Carlisle on a Sunday!

And to get back to the purpose of this thread, Northern have indeed scrapped the 0947 Leeds to Carlisle as well as the 0849, replacing them with just one train at 0919 with a gap of an hour and half between trains instead of the current hourly service at that time in the morning.

Yes, technically there may be an additional service or two, but if they're at times when few people want to travel, that's not really an improvement, is it?

Got to hope it will be four carriages at least in that case !
 

47802

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2013
Messages
3,455
The SuO Sheffield to Carlisle service will still depart Sheffield at 1017, exactly the same as in the current TT, so I'm not sure how you see that as an improvement. And I don't think there'll be hundreds of Nottingham residents queueing up to spend 4 and a half hours travelling to Carlisle on a Sunday!

And to get back to the purpose of this thread, Northern have indeed scrapped the 0947 Leeds to Carlisle as well as the 0849, replacing them with just one train at 0919 with a gap of an hour and half between trains instead of the current hourly service at that time in the morning.

Yes, technically there may be an additional service or two, but if they're at times when few people want to travel, that's not really an improvement, is it?

Yes but the number of trains is still the same just more spread out and some people may wish to take advantage of the new earlier 07-48 departure instead although I guess we will have to see how it works out the 09-19 could be very busy.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,699
The SuO Sheffield to Carlisle service will still depart Sheffield at 1017, exactly the same as in the current TT, so I'm not sure how you see that as an improvement. And I don't think there'll be hundreds of Nottingham residents queueing up to spend 4 and a half hours travelling to Carlisle on a Sunday!

ER, well. I don't suppose there are hundreds of Sheffield residents doing it on the current 10.17 either, so what do you propose - cut the service back and start from Leeds? I mean, why bother running it at all, if that's your way of thinking. Obviously some people are hard to please.

Fact is, right now, on a Sunday, Nottingham residents can't even get to Sheffield by train to catch the 10.17. (Unless I've missed something.)

From Sunday, 20 May - residents of Nottingham (population, Wiki, appox 0.33m, but I suspect the agglomeration is much bigger), Ilkeston, Afreton, Chesterfield and even Dronfield will not only be able to catch this train, it will take them directly. Not only to Carlisle, but to Barnsley, Leeds, Skipton etc. At a guess, I'd say that 700,000 ? people from the Notts-Derby region offered a direct train service.

If there were a train every two hours like this, you might have a point, but as you must know, there isn't. So in this context, I'd call this a significant improvement to the service. And I congratulate Northern for doing it.

As a small aside, the new service also allows Ilkeston folks who so wish to catch the following EMT Liverpool train ex Nottingham. This obviously wouldn't even be worth a mention in your books, because as clear as day, there won't even be a dozen folks who'd ever do that on a Sunday morning. But some people (like me) believe change tends to take place in increments - and this is another one of those. Very positive, I'd say.

And to get back to the purpose of this thread, Northern have indeed scrapped the 0947 Leeds to Carlisle as well as the 0849, replacing them with just one train at 0919 with a gap of an hour and half between trains instead of the current hourly service at that time in the morning.

This thread went OT into general S&C workings and more almost from the off.

Whaever, to answer your assessment, I'd point out that you are conveniently forgetting there is a new 07.48 Leeds - Carlisle, so they have not done as you imply. You also fail to mention - perhaps you hadn't noticed - that the new 09.19 Class 1 train is now a stopper twixt Skipton and Appleby, so in many ways the OP's original complaint is nullified. (How it can retain its Class 1 status like is a bit of a mystery to me, but there it is. Intriguingly, the new 20.18 Carlisle - Leeds stops at fewer stations, but trundles along as a Class 2.)

Yes, technically there may be an additional service or two, but if they're at times when few people want to travel, that's not really an improvement, is it?

Well, as someone pointed out on another thread - unless you introduce a fantastically imroved clock face timetable - there are always winners and losers with incremental changes. I'd opine that introducing all those stops on the 09.19 is a backward step as it is.
Against this, I see the introduction of the 07.48 Leeds - Carlisle as a great positive, allowing a 'business time' start to the service from Leeds. Then there are later evening trains from both Leeds and Carlisle, giving pax greater flexibility if they are late arriving at these nodes for some reason. You may think otherwise - but since neither of us (I assume) are privy to the data that Northern has on potential passenger demand - it's a matter of opinion. Mine is that these changes are several steps in the right direction, ie offering better connectivity both within and outside all S&C statons. I hope it shows in passenger figures come the first results in December 2019 - because they have largely been falling in recent years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top