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10 legit ways to get cheaper rail fares

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yorkie

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10 examples, but only 3 ways:
1) Splitting tickets
2) Starting/finishing 'short' on a longer distance ticket
4) Combining singles

There are a few other ways, but probably too complicated to recommend to Joe Public:
5) Using the Routeing Guide ;)
6) (Railcard holders:) Buying Savers pre-1000 to avoid draconian minimum fares on SDRs
7) Using advance purchase (hang on, I know this is about walk-on fares, but bear with me) for a through journey you have no intention of making but manipulating the system (legally) to give you a "suggested service" that covers you for the journey you want to make, the "suggested service" is then effectively "open". I know you can't do this on the day, but if you know the day - but not exact time - of travel, it can work for some journeys (e.g. Manchester to Sheffield using MML advance, or York to Manchester using Virgin advance).
8) Rovers (OK not often applicable, but there are some examples)
 

yorkie

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The trick that you can show off to none rail knowers has been given. :(
Hardly. That's just a few examples, but you have to really learn the system to be able to easily identify more examples. You can't look at a map and randomly decide to split a journey, for example.

Firstly, you need to know the exact requirements and have a rough idea of the ticket types that may satisfy those requirements.

Secondly, you have to consult the timetable (e.g. York to London splitting at Retford and Stevenage would be pretty useless, or Manchester to London splitting at Tamworth would be totally useless).

Thirdly, you need to check all the conditions and fares (the Avantix traveller software helps there!)
 
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Tom

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You can only use the FoIA if it directly related to government.
 
T

Tom

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DLR & LUL are part of TfL which are directly related to government.

ATOC is simply appointed by the train operators to manage it - and is appointed by the government as the central resource. Either way it has no FoIA section on their website so you cannot use the FoIA on them.
 

yorkie

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Its a shame VT are so expensive!
The worst are:
VT, MML and FGW in that order.

Why? Because of the lack of day returns and their extortionate peak pricing policies for non-London journeys. Although people who commute to Bristol would no doubt rank FGW as worse than VT, and indeed would buy VT-priced Savers to places like Birmingham to avoid FGW Saver restrictions!

Although the policies adopted by One, CT, FSR, TPE and FCC are abysmal and an insult to their 'customers', so they deserve a mention too.

(Note it's the NatEx and Farce franchises that are generally the worst)

ALSO is ATOC a Public company because under freedom of info 2k0 we can request things...?
Sadly not, although that trick did work with SET when they were run by the SRA, IIRC.
 

LucaZone

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Seems aimed at only those with lacking common sense…………

“travel outside peak times” – reads : travel outside the times that are expensive……….
“get a Railcard” – reads : buying discount tickets….err gets you a discount
“travel off peak to get better first class deals” – reads : not necessarily worth the money still yet

The classics of a privatised railway:
“buying two singles can be cheaper than a return” – reads : what is the purpose of a return ticket at all then?
“book as far in advance as possible” – reads : give them your money sooner and they’ll take less profit
“travel in a group of ten or more” – reads : no ticket inspector is going to mess if you’re in a mob of other fare dodgers

Finally, not part of the report but, don’t travel by train at all! You can save a fortune!
 

David

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Finally, not part of the report but, don’t travel by train at all! You can save a fortune!

It can cost a fortune to run a car. Also, it may be cheaper to get a bus, but it's probably slower....
 

CallySleeper

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Note, 'walk-up', minutes before travel. Some people who start trying to calculate routes/fares etc are going to take longer to plan and purchase travel documents that those who don't. Rail staff generally will not help these people in the walk-up environment and suggest splitting tickets, it's time consuming for having to search for information and at the end of the day they loose money.

In my experience, and for my use, Virgin and MM offer the best value, GNER less so in comparison. I'm not a fan of the split ticket idea - it's time consuming to calculate and for many journeys that I make it's N/A. Also, that bit extra that you pay by not splitting walk-up tickets might actually benefit.

Also, someone said about 2 open walk-up singles being less expensive than the equivalent return ticket - I would love to see where this is the case because I've never seen anything like it.

(in before "overall cheaper fares" "not gonna happen")
 

yorkie

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Note, 'walk-up', minutes before travel. Some people who start trying to calculate routes/fares etc are going to take longer to plan and purchase travel documents that those who don't.
True, but many people do regular walk-up journeys, and knowing the best combo can help. So it's still useful.
Rail staff generally will not help these people in the walk-up environment and suggest splitting tickets,
They're not even allowed to!
it's time consuming for having to search for information and at the end of the day they loose money.
It would be ridiculous to ask a ticket seller to do the research and find the cheapest combo, and I fully understand why they cannot do that. However, if a customer asks for a list of prices and conditions, then they have to fulfil the request.
In my experience, and for my use, Virgin and MM offer the best value, GNER less so in comparison.
For walk-on? How on earth do you work that out?!! Examples please?!
I'm not a fan of the split ticket idea - it's time consuming to calculate and for many journeys that I make it's N/A.
Lucky you ;)
Also, that bit extra that you pay by not splitting walk-up tickets might actually benefit.
It might, but it might not...

If I want a day return to London inc travelcard, why should I pay £15 extra when I can split at Grantham and get the exact same train (0936 off York is the first I could get either way) ?
Also, someone said about 2 open walk-up singles being less expensive than the equivalent return ticket - I would love to see where this is the case because I've never seen anything like it.

(in before "overall cheaper fares" "not gonna happen")
An example was listed, Newcastle-York.

The Any Permitted FOR is pointless, as you can walk on to any train and pay for a single on the train. Then, on the way back, do likewise. You are actually penalised for buying a return from the ticket office.
 

CallySleeper

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It would be ridiculous to ask a ticket seller to do the research and find the cheapest combo, and I fully understand why they cannot do that. However, if a customer asks for a list of prices and conditions, then they have to fulfil the request.
Yes, but not for combinations of tickets.

For walk-on? How on earth do you work that out?!! Examples please?!
For my use, i.e., advance purchase. I don't travel any other way long distance.

It might, but it might not...

If I want a day return to London inc travelcard, why should I pay £15 extra when I can split at Grantham and get the exact same train (0936 off York is the first I could get either way)
I was thinking more of economical benefits to the railway more than anything else. Also, if it's inc travelcard, why not invest in Oyster? (which is cheaper as it is)
 
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Tom

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Oyster does not give national rail services in the cap, hence the cap being 50p lower. And also, ODT costs are absorbed by about £3 into the ODT from out of London, on child it's about £1.50.
 

yorkie

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Yes, but not for combinations of tickets.
Yes they do. You've made that up. They have to sell whatever you ask for. They have to give you a price for any ticket you ask for. Why do you think any different ?
For my use, i.e., advance purchase. I don't travel any other way long distance.
OK.
I was thinking more of economical benefits to the railway more than anything else. Also, if it's inc travelcard, why not invest in Oyster? (which is cheaper as it is)
Sorry but you're talking rubbish.

It's about £39 with railcard for a York-Grantham and Grantham-London all zones.

York-London is £49 and then you have to add a fiver for a travelcard on top.

How the hell is Oyster going to prevent a £15 deficit? In fact, a travelcard on Oyster is no cheaper than a travelcard on paper. And, worse, if I got Oyster I could not get it all issued at York in one transaction.
 

Kris

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Beware of Media 'experts' !

The company rules even under BR used to state 'You must be in possession of a valid ticket for the journey throughout'

Some people used to try and avoid the SDR from Bomo to Wloo by buying a cheaper saver (which was valid at that time in the morning) to Ipswich. RPI's cottoned onto this however and even followed them to point out the error of their ways ; )

For the same reason - 2 singles won't cut it either - especially if the train doesn't stop at one of the stations to pick up
 

yorkie

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Some people used to try and avoid the SDR from Bomo to Wloo by buying a cheaper saver (which was valid at that time in the morning) to Ipswich. RPI's cottoned onto this however and even followed them to point out the error of their ways ; )
I can just imagine them following them onto the tube to see if they boarded a Class 86 to Ipswich.. ;)

There's also nothing to say the London transfer has to be done by tube - they could take a bus or taxi.

In fact, if an RPI tried this on, surely they could be done for harrasment/stalking?! I really doubt it happened somehow.
 

Tom C

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Provided that you go up to the window armed with all your needs then it isn't a problem at all to split tickets at the counter or even on an Advantix machine. There used to be regulars that would come to the windows in town with the combos and I would quite happily sell it to them, infact after a while when you got to know the regular trips I would tend to sell them to every passenger so long as they were polite which certainly went down well with the OAP's. Even used to ask people if they really were staying on the train so I could do them a full seat reservation right through. Not entirely with the rules but who cares, why should you give more money to these firms than you really have to.

Some people used to try and avoid the SDR from Bomo to Wloo by buying a cheaper saver (which was valid at that time in the morning) to Ipswich. RPI's cottoned onto this however and even followed them to point out the error of their ways ; )

As a RPI I think that is petty. I couldn't care less what or where you are going so long as the ticket is valid on my train, thats all I concentrate on. Its complete arse about face to be able to buy tickets for an additional 100 mile journey which costs less so its their own fault for the stupid fare system.
 

yorkie

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Oyster does not give national rail services in the cap, hence the cap being 50p lower. And also, ODT costs are absorbed by about £3 into the ODT from out of London, on child it's about £1.50.
I really don't understand why so many people believe this myth that a travelcard on Oyster is cheaper than a travelcard on paper.

Firstly, the product is a travelcard. The method of storage (paper or oyster) is irrelevant (for the stand-alone product).

Secondly, the Oyster pre-pay cap is only useful if you do NOT hold a railcard AND if you do not use any* NR services. As far as I am aware, there is no way to 'excess' a capped pre-pay into a travelcard.

Thirdly, as Tom correctly states, the cost of ODTs from outside London are lower than the cost of a ticket to London Terminals and a seperate ODT. It's the inbound equivalent of an all zones ODT and a BZ6 extention (although the price will vary slightly).

(* With a few exceptions)
 

Mintona

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I hate having to but tickets on the day...even for Saver Returns I purchase online.

Why?

Because station staff at Gloucester don't let me use my railcard at all before 1000 :(
 

CallySleeper

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^^^^ except you can of course!

Yes they do. You've made that up. They have to sell whatever you ask for. They have to give you a price for any ticket you ask for. Why do you think any different
Yes. Even if I were to say, I would like to travel from Manchester to London, I think it would be cheaper to split my journey at some point, please find for me what the cheapest way of spliting the journey would be?

Sorry but you're talking rubbish.

It's about £39 with railcard for a York-Grantham and Grantham-London all zones.

York-London is £49 and then you have to add a fiver for a travelcard on top.

How the hell is Oyster going to prevent a £15 deficit? In fact, a travelcard on Oyster is no cheaper than a travelcard on paper. And, worse, if I got Oyster I could not get it all issued at York in one transaction.

a) What would the add-on price for a travelcard be with this

b) Which zones would your travelcard be for.
 

yorkie

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^^^^ except you can of course!
Indeed. Min fare £8 on SVRs (and I doubt many savers cost less than £8!)

Alistair - you should tell them to consult the NFM. If they refuse, politely ask for their name and inform them that you may report the matter to Customer Services. (At this point, they'll probably be co-operative so as to avoid being reported)
Yes. Even if I were to say, I would like to travel from Manchester to London, I think it would be cheaper to split my journey at some point, please find for me what the cheapest way of spliting the journey would be?
No, as I said before, you cannot ask them to suggest combinations. What you can do is ask them for prices/conditions for tickets that you specify. The key thing is, you have to request it.

a) What would the add-on price for a travelcard be with this
It's an inclusive fare, and you can obtain the fares using Avantix traveller. Use 'ZONE R1256 ZONES' (code 0035). It's not actually an 'add-on', but an example is Peterborough to London ODT £26.50 'Any Permitted', this is £3 more than a Peterborough to London CDR at £23.50 'Any Permitted', however it gets better: railcard holders only pay £1.95 more.

b) Which zones would your travelcard be for.
1-6

I hate having to but tickets on the day...even for Saver Returns I purchase online.

Why?

Because station staff at Gloucester don't let me use my railcard at all before 1000 :(
Download http://www.atoc.org/retail/_downloads/NFM95/NFM95_Common_F.pdf and print page 3.

"The minimum fare applies .... before 1000 Mondays–Fridays (except Public Holidays and in July and August)"

£8 Min fare on: SDS, SOS, EOS, CD, NA, ODT, OP, SV, SS, EV, EL, FR, AS, SA, VB, BV, WK, CV, BF, BA, BB,MW, BG, BU, OS3, OS4, C1, C3, C7, BCO.

£16 Min fare on: SDR, SOR, EOR.

No minimum fare on any other ticket type.

So, if a Saver costs £10 without discount, you would pay the minimum fare of £8. If the Saver cost £7.95 without discount, you obviously would not want to pay £8 ;) so you would be told you could not use your railcard, if the saver cost more than £12 without discount then you'd get the full discount.
 

Mintona

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Crikey, I'm worried they won't let me use it on the £51 return to Whittlesea, so I'm having to go from Hereford instead (where they do let me use it)

Thanks for the link Yorkie.
 

yorkie

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5p doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me so I'd pay it anyway..
The system won't let you. It assumes (incorrectly in your case) that you don't want to pay more than a non-railcard discounted ticket, so it will just issue a normal ticket.
 

16CSVT2700

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The system won't let you. It assumes (incorrectly in your case) that you don't want to pay more than a non-railcard discounted ticket, so it will just issue a normal ticket.
Bloody things.
Tried this splitting thing..
Burnham-Cardiff SVR: £35

Burnham-Swindon: £16.50
Swindon-Cardiff: £16.50
Total £33

Is it really worth it to save just £2?
 
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