1119 kings cross - newcastle

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by DarloRich, 23 Oct 2011.

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  1. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Is in reverse formation ie 91 at london end - cant say i have ever had a 91 push out of kings cross! The first class types have miles to walk for once!

    Is this becuase of the engineering works?

     
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  3. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    Most likely.

    Leeds-KX services have been reversed at Newark to travel via Lincoln and Spalding.
     
  4. graham43404

    graham43404 Member

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    They had better get that one sorted for tomorrow or there will be some letters being fired off to the Daily Wail :lol:
     
  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    i am sure they will turn it at newcastle!

     
  6. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    Surely if it reverses on the way southbound, then northbound it is back in correct formation...
    More likely an imbalance has occured, so there will be a few sets in reverse fomation
    Quite easy to sort, as above, change of diagram to use Newcastle
    Could also be turned at Leeds (but is a bit involved)
     
  7. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Any service terminating at or heading north of Newcastle can be used for turning it back round easily enough- might pick up a bit of a delay mind if heading north.
     
  8. YorkshireBear

    YorkshireBear Established Member

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    Where can you turn it at leeds? apart from shipley? I dont think they would turn it there. Happy to be corrected.
     
  9. Flying Snail

    Flying Snail Member

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    Apart from Shipley you can't, not without usuing a diesel to tow it anyway. HSTs can be turned in service without reversing as long as nobody minds skipping the Wakefield stop.

    There is (or used to be) a late arriving HST booked to arrive in Leeds from Doncaster via Micklefield, could be a MML service I am thinking of rather than East Coast.
     
  10. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    Arrive into Leeds
    Go to York
    Go to Doncaster
    Back to Leeds
    It's been done before
     
  11. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You'd struggle to do that with a 91 unless you had a locomotive to pull you between NH and York.
     
  12. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    As Colton Jn to Neville Hill is not electrified, then 91's cannot run Leeds -York.

    I'm also struggling to see how the route round the triange you've described would turn a set (even a diesel). However, there is a loop for HSTs travelling north from Doncaster using the Hambleton Jn chord near Selby, allowing an approach into Leeds from the east and then departing west back south to Doncaster. Was that what you were thinking of? GNER had plans to electrify Hambleton Jn to Neville Hill would have made that loop accessible to electric stock as well (but of course that didn't materialise).
     
  13. philjo

    philjo Established Member

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    There is that electrified triangle immediately south of Leeds station - can 225s use this or is it limited to EMUs?
    It was used to access the temporary Leeds whitehall station by the the Airedale/Wharfedale EMUs.
     
  14. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Don't think that junction is electrified fully enough to fit a 225 set in. Also I doubt whether there are enough paths to do so at Leeds these days.
     
  15. Flying Snail

    Flying Snail Member

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    According to Quail the electrification does not extend as far as the points on either side of the south of the triangle.

    Even if possible it would be a disruptive move in a very busy part of the railway.

    It just highlights how unusual Newcastle is that a set can be reversed in service with only a very minimal delay.
     
  16. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    When Virgin used to run the XC 47s LHCS, there used to be one going from Newcastle to Bristol which never would need to reverse. Even though this used to be the case, there were a few times where the 47 was detached at Newcastle and sent round the loop to the other end, no idea why though.
     
  17. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    The reason for Newcastle's layout is historical - the High Level was built first in the era of Queen Victoria and had a triangle junction at the south end. This fed into the east end of the station, meaning that anything coming from the south and heading for Edinburgh via what is now the ECML would have to reverse. The west end fed out onto what is now the Forth Branch, but used to run through to Carlisle (joined the current route from Blaydon).

    The current ECML approach from the south is over the more westerly King Edward bridge, named after the reigning monarch at the time of construction, enabling trains from London to come in from the west and head for Edinburgh via Berwick without reversing. It also has a triangle junction at the other end; both these triangle junctions are linked and so a train can approach from south of the river, go over one bridge, through Newcastle station then over the other bridge and come back the other way without reversing.
     
  18. Flying Snail

    Flying Snail Member

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    How was that achieved? Aren't the only lines accessible southbound from Temple Meads without reversing the Main to Weston S M/Taunton and the Portbury branch?

    On a similar topic the early Holyhead-Birmingham-Holyhead when it was 47+Mk2 operated would normally loop around Birmingham usually via Bescot and Aston on it's southbound trip and take the regular route to Wolverhampton on departure.
     
  19. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    to even out wear and tear perhaps?
     
  20. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Not entirely sure, never made it as far as Bristol when they were running, but managed to cab a 47 one night at Central and the driver told me the train was in effect, doing one large circular journey (saying that, I think it was Bristol, although this was a good 10-15 years ago now).

    Could well be, although it seemed to happen irregularly. Also thought it might have to do with route knowledge over the bridges across the Tyne.
     
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