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1520 Carlisle to Nottingham (20/02/22)

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greyman42

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Does anyone know what happened to this service between Skipton and Sheffield? It left Skipton 75L but made 30 mins up by Sheffield. There is nothing on RTT.
 
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John C

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Can’t say for sure but looking at RTT 158792 started the service at Carlisle and terminated at Skipton, I believe Thackley Tunnel near Shipley was flooded preventing it running to Leeds, I expect the service was then partly reinstated from Sheffield to Nottingham.
 

_toommm_

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The allocation of 158792 is only from Carlisle to Skipton. Additionally, there's no arrival time at Sheffield, along with no reporting times from the time it was due to depart Skipton and the time it was due to arrive in Sheffield. Therefore it seems it was restarted from Sheffield.
 

Mcr Warrior

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I'm with @John C and @_toommm_ . Terminated at Skipton and another unit operated from Sheffield to Nottingham? Can't see any likely diversionary route if the line beyond Skipton towards Leeds is closed.
 

skyhigh

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Bit odd. Delay of 3 mins due to the blanket speed restriction, 16 mins due to a track defect, 31 mins due to flooding and then held at Skipton for 19 mins (according to the system). As far as I can tell the 158 terminated at Skipton and went into Broughton Road sidings, but there's no allocation on the system for what worked onwards from Sheffield.
 

30907

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I'm with @John C . Terminated at Skipton and another unit operated from Sheffield to Nottingham? Can't see any likely diversionary route if the line beyond Skipton towards Leeds is closed.
There isn't!
Bit odd. Delay of 3 mins due to the blanket speed restriction, 16 mins due to a track defect, 31 mins due to flooding and then held at Skipton for 19 mins (according to the system). As far as I can tell the 158 terminated at Skipton and went into Broughton Road sidings, but there's no allocation on the system for what worked onwards from Sheffield.
RTT has it sat in the platform and then leaving - obviously no-one cancelled the train on the system and made it a class 5 :)
I suspect it went back to Carlisle an hour later as the severely delayed 1701.
 

dk1

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If it was reformed as sounds the most plausible reason, I wonder why the headcode remained the same?
 

_toommm_

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If it was reformed as sounds the most plausible reason, I wonder why the headcode remained the same?

Indeed, in my experience it would normally get cancelled from Skipton then restarted from Sheffield as a 2Z or 2x (x being any other letter than the original headcode).
 

Geeves

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If the original headcode train had terminated at Skipton there's no real issue restarting another train with same headcode at Sheffield. After all even on Northern there are trains running with the same headcode at the same time in different areas. The systems don't much like two trains running to the same station with the same headcode hence the 1Z**

Also saves having to get NR to put a new train in the system at short notice.
 

Tractor37

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As the driver on said train, we lost approx 15 minutes for the blanket speed restriction of 50mph instead of the 60mph line speed. About 5 minutes at Blea Moor to be cautioned for a speed restriction of 20mph for a length of 2 chains at the end of the up goods loop. Then held at Hellifield for a further 40 minutes due to a lack of platform space at Skipton, where the service was terminated and the unit shunted into Broughton Road sidings.

We could have gone forward from Skipton, diverting from Shipley and running upto Guiseley to change ends - avoiding the flooding at Thackley tunnel, however due to further flooding at Rodley this wasn’t possible.

As this service was cancelled at Skipton, the same headcode could be used for the service to restart from Sheffield with a different unit.

Hope this explains what happened on Sunday.
 

Tomnick

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If the original headcode train had terminated at Skipton there's no real issue restarting another train with same headcode at Sheffield. After all even on Northern there are trains running with the same headcode at the same time in different areas. The systems don't much like two trains running to the same station with the same headcode hence the 1Z**

Also saves having to get NR to put a new train in the system at short notice.
You won't have the problem of two trains with the same headcode being at (or near) the same location at the same time - the problem isn't just with "the systems" but also the risk of signallers and other staff getting confused, potentially including during safety-critical comms.

It's still not correct, though - in the example given, it's still shown as running through but with "no report" at locations between Skipton and Sheffield, as TRUST picked up the departure from Sheffield and (reasonably) assumed that it must have just failed to report at intermediate locations. This affects the performance stats, but also might cause problems for anyone trying to claim delay repay. If the first leg ends up running so late that the restarted service departs from Sheffield (more likely if it was restarted from Leeds instead) before the original one arrives at Skipton, it can also cause problems for operating staff as it'll disappear off TRUST line-ups at that point!
 

gerryuk

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What is the reason this service between Carlisle, Sheffield / Nottingham exists? Why does this through service operate only once in each direction every Sunday?
 

43055

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What is the reason this service between Carlisle, Sheffield / Nottingham exists? Why does this through service operate only once in each direction every Sunday?
Probably a convenient linking of two separate services which allows day trips from Nottingham/Sheffield along the Settle to Carlisle line.
 

Watershed

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What is the reason this service between Carlisle, Sheffield / Nottingham exists? Why does this through service operate only once in each direction every Sunday?
It's a matter of rolling stock diagramming convenience, I would have said. Services on the S&C run to a relatively irregular timetable (more resource-led than clockface) and accordingly this may simply be what works out as being convenient. Somewhat similarly to how there used to be the "tour de Yorkshire".

I don't think there is any "franchise" requirement to run this as a through service.
 

30907

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It's a matter of rolling stock diagramming convenience, I would have said. Services on the S&C run to a relatively irregular timetable (more resource-led than clockface) and accordingly this may simply be what works out as being convenient.
It runs in the standard Nottingham-Leeds path, so I am sure you are right as far as recent years are concerned.
I have a feeling, though, that the northbound train (if not both) predates that and started from Sheffield. I wonder if there is a bit of a Sunday market for Sheffield or Nottingham to Glasgow (probably students), but I've never used the train to find out, so that's purely a guess.
(Maybe I'm remembering that Leeds-Lancaster was Sunday evenings only for many years for a similar market.)
 

Adam0984

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It runs in the standard Nottingham-Leeds path, so I am sure you are right as far as recent years are concerned.
I have a feeling, though, that the northbound train (if not both) predates that and started from Sheffield. I wonder if there is a bit of a Sunday market for Sheffield or Nottingham to Glasgow (probably students), but I've never used the train to find out, so that's purely a guess.
(Maybe I'm remembering that Leeds-Lancaster was Sunday evenings only for many years for a similar market.)
There is a day tripper market northbound with around 50% come back on the southbound, but southbound there is a lot of students from the S&C/aire Valley that go down to Sheffield and Nottingham
 

dk1

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What is the reason this service between Carlisle, Sheffield / Nottingham exists? Why does this through service operate only once in each direction every Sunday?
More to do with operational convenience but you’d like to think somebody from marketing & train planning also shew a little enthusiasm.
 

30907

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There is a day tripper market northbound with around 50% come back on the southbound, but southbound there is a lot of students from the S&C/aire Valley that go down to Sheffield and Nottingham
Thanks, makes sense - prime home territory for people studying away-but-not-too-far-away from home (plus those at Lancaster, York, etc :))
 

robbeech

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I know 2 unrelated people (who have no real interest in the railway) who have mentioned the convenience of getting up to Glasgow from Nottingham (and the other from Chesterfield) with just 1 change on a Sunday.

It isn’t necessarily something I’d find too appealing and I’m not that far from that starting area but I suppose I can understand.
 

ChrisC

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I know 2 unrelated people (who have no real interest in the railway) who have mentioned the convenience of getting up to Glasgow from Nottingham (and the other from Chesterfield) with just 1 change on a Sunday.

It isn’t necessarily something I’d find too appealing and I’m not that far from that starting area but I suppose I can understand.
I fully understand why. Nottingham to Glasgow is not an easy journey these days, especially for elderly people with luggage who don’t like changing trains. I don’t mind changing trains, but the last time I travelled up to Glasgow from Nottingham midweek, I changed at Leeds and Carlisle.

Going via Grantham and the ECML is now often a horrendous journey as Edinburgh trains don’t stop there and so the 2 hourly train as far as York and then further changes is the only option.
Cross Country from Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield via Edinburgh to Glasgow are not running through to Glasgow very frequently and are often overcrowded with little luggage space.
Enough said about trying to use the EMR Liverpool train from Nottingham with a change at Manchester Piccadilly, especially at weekends.
That just leaves via Crewe but through trains to Glasgow are not very frequent and depart just before the train arrives from Nottingham. Sundays require an additional change of train at Derby and connections there are not good with no trains until mid afternoon.
 
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