16-18 bus pass proposed by metro mayor favourite

[pemma]

Andy Burnham, who is favourite to become metro mayor for Greater Manchester, has proposed the following

As powers to improve bus services become available, we will use them to
give all 16-18 year olds in Greater Manchester a free bus pass. As a first
step, we will introduce half-price travel for 16-18 year olds on public transport,
starting with buses and extending to Metrolink as soon as possible.

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n..._Burham_Manifesto_A4_12pp_copy.pdf?1489493923

Post-introduction how long before there are calls for it to be accepted on rail services?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It certainly should be, but you would expect me to say that as it's not an integrated network otherwise.

 

[johnnychips]

How much do under-16s pay currently?

 

[Observer]

I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would push for Andy Burnham as the favourite given his track history but it is Manchester, they usually cross the box for any nodding donkey with a red rosette on.

 

[pemma]

I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would push for Andy Burnham as the favourite given his track history but it is Manchester, they usually cross the box for any nodding donkey with a red rosette on.

The Conservative candidate doesn't have the experience needed. He's a 20 something who got elected as a local councillor in a ward the Conservatives are pretty much guaranteed to win because he has the right connections. Yet he thinks he can cause an upset.

 

[BBC]

This needs to be rolled out nationwide. Why should kids have to pay, but old rich people get buses free ? It's just not right, give free bus travel to all over 65 and all under 18.

 

[pemma]

This needs to be rolled out nationwide. Why should kids have to pay, but old rich people get buses free ? It's just not right, give free bus travel to all over 65 and all under 18.

You could also argue why should the unemployed looking for work or adults in full time education have to pay. Some pensioners argue that the ENCTS is something they've paid for through NI contributions but then some people pay a lot of NI and then die before reaching state retirement age, while some female pensioners now paid reduced rate married women's NI contributions so you could argue only their husband should be entitled to a bus pass but the benefit can be passed to them if their husband dies.

 

[carlberry]

This needs to be rolled out nationwide. Why should kids have to pay, but old rich people get buses free ? It's just not right, give free bus travel to all over 65 and all under 18.

Yes, free travel for kids is much more important than funding the NHS properly!

It wont happen. Under 18s don't vote and their parents are less likely to than the OAPs.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, free travel for kids is much more important than funding the NHS properly!

It wont happen. Under 18s don't vote and their parents are less likely to than the OAPs.

Bang on!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes, free travel for kids is much more important than funding the NHS properly!

It's just as important as spending billions on ENCTS.

But, as you say, under-16s can't vote so boo sucks to them.

 

[pemma]

This is a policy included in a metro mayor's manifesto. If he's elected and it's not delivered then by the time there is another election those who didn't get what they were promised will be old enough to vote.

 

[Andyh82]

Presumably it'll be properly funded, as after pensioners, teenagers and students going to college and university are probably the next biggest group of passengers that use buses.

 

[Stan Drews]

Presumably it'll be properly funded...

 

[gnolife]

How much do under-16s pay currently?

Absolute maximum of £35.75/month (which can reduce to 32.50 if they use a smartcard rather than paper)

 

[Bungle965]

Yes, free travel for kids is much more important than funding the NHS properly!

It wont happen. Under 18s don't vote and their parents are less likely to than the OAPs.

I am strongly in favour of 16+ being able to vote especially in the case of the EU referendum where if we had then there would have been possibility that the country would not be leaving the EU, however if 16+ are not eligible to vote why should the coffin dodgers be able vote for something that they would most likely not be able to see the full effects of.... what irks me the most that I am treated as an adult only on certain topics. I am allowed to sign up to the army, reproduce and seek employment why then should I not be allowed to vote?

Back to the main point
The fact that on Metrolink I have to buy a Adult ticket with no option for student is not really acceptable, TfGM had a perfect time to implement a pass for students the same time as they introduced the igo pass for 11-16 year old's, however they chose not to.
TfL has the Zip card for everyone under the the age of 18 giving discounted travel, why can't Manchester?

Sam

 

[BBC]

Yes, free travel for kids is much more important than funding the NHS properly!

It wont happen. Under 18s don't vote and their parents are less likely to than the OAPs.

Is this reply for real ? Did I say don't fund the NHS properly ? Didn't realise it was free bus travel or a properly funded NHS.

 

[Stan Drews]

I am strongly in favour of 16+ being able to vote especially in the case of the EU referendum where if we had then there would have been possibility that the country would not be leaving the EU, however if 16+ are not eligible to vote why should the coffin dodgers be able vote for something that they would most likely not be able to see the full effects of.... what irks me the most that I am treated as an adult only on certain topics. I am allowed to sign up to the army, reproduce and seek employment why then should I not be allowed to vote?

Back to the main point
The fact that on Metrolink I have to buy a Adult ticket with no option for student is not really acceptable, TfGM had a perfect time to implement a pass for students the same time as they introduced the igo pass for 11-16 year old's, however they chose not to.
TfL has the Zip card for everyone under the the age of 18 giving discounted travel, why can't Manchester?

Sam

The bus operators already offer discounts for young persons up to 21, with the System One (Get Me There) range of tickets, at no cost to the public purse.

 

[Bungle965]

The bus operators already offer discounts for young persons up to 21, with the System One (Get Me There) range of tickets, at no cost to the public purse.

Yes they do I have used it before,my example was Metrolink however...
Sam

 

[Stan Drews]

Yes they do I have used it before,my example was Metrolink however...
Sam

Unfortunately the "nasty bus barons" have no control over Metrolink fares!

However, I'm fairly certain that the politicians will hail any 'new' young persons discount as a victory against the deregulated bus system!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is this reply for real ? Did I say don't fund the NHS properly ? Didn't realise it was free bus travel or a properly funded NHS.

I'm sure Carl can defend himself but I think you're slightly misconstruing him.

I think Carl was pointing out the political realities of today in that OAPs vote in greater numbers than young people. They are more important to political parties - hence the various electoral bribes such as ENCTS, Triple Lock pensions, etc.

They are also now an increasing burden on the NHS. So.... what is politically more expedient or attractive to the demographic that politicians most fervently wish to court? More money for the NHS or free travel for teenagers?

 

[BBC]

I'm sure Carl can defend himself but I think you're slightly misconstruing him.

I think Carl was pointing out the political realities of today in that OAPs vote in greater numbers than young people. They are more important to political parties - hence the various electoral bribes such as ENCTS, Triple Lock pensions, etc.

They are also now an increasing burden on the NHS. So.... what is politically more expedient or attractive to the demographic that politicians most fervently wish to court? More money for the NHS or free travel for teenagers?

But the government doesn't fund free travel for OAPs. It's local councils. So giving free travel to 16-18s has nothing to do with NHS funding.

 

[thealexweb]

How much do under-16s pay currently?

Half the adult fare. Yet another reason why adult singles are so expensive in Greater Manchester.

 

[carlberry]

But the government doesn't fund free travel for OAPs. It's local councils. So giving free travel to 16-18s has nothing to do with NHS funding.

Your original statement was 'This needs to be rolled out nationwide'. The only people who can do that is the government (as they did with ENCTS) after which they can push the costs onto local councils in later years. Whoever pays for it however it'll be competing with more politically attractive directions for funding such as the NHS if the government pays or social care if local councils pay.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But the government doesn't fund free travel for OAPs. It's local councils. So giving free travel to 16-18s has nothing to do with NHS funding.

ENCTS was funded by government. They have now devolved it to councils but made it a statutory responsibility for them to fund it from an ever decreasing pot of cash.

With Bristol as an example, over half their revenue comes from central government; council tax and business rates (local taxation) constitutes only c.30% of their funding. Across the UK, billions have been cut from LA funding. That is the link between local funding for free travel and the NHS.

 

[sk688]

So its basically a Zip Card then ?

Why not extend it , like the normal Zip Card , free buses , trains 75p for 11-15 and basically a 16 plus Free Travel Card , for 16-18 , but I dont know the fares for the 16 plus Free Travel Card ( which is half price travel on all services )

Just out of interest, would this be a basic smartcard , or Photocard

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It isn't free travel - someone has to pay for it.

 

[Starmill]

Manchester continues to be the land where those of state pension age get rail travel in the evening peak for free at the same time as everyone else has to pay the inflated Anytime fare, and recently suffer a huge increase (as much as 35%) in fares at other times.

For what it's worth, 16-18 year olds can get half price travel on single tickets for their journey to and from their place of full time education with a Scholar's Permit. Not a lot but there it is. It's hard to envisage free travel for 16-18 year olds when there's no free travel for under 16s?

I have not been entitled to any free travel since I was 5, including to or from school...

 

[pemma]

For what it's worth, 16-18 year olds can get half price travel on single tickets for their journey to and from their place of full time education with a Scholar's Permit. Not a lot but there it is. It's hard to envisage free travel for 16-18 year olds when there's no free travel for under 16s?

I have not been entitled to any free travel since I was 5, including to or from school...

There's a considerable number of pupils living in Cheshire East attending educational establishments in Trafford and vice versa. I wonder if we'll have a situation where a 16-18 year old from Hale would be able to get to Bury using their pass but wouldn't be able to use it to get to their place of study using it.

 

[Deerfold]

For what it's worth, 16-18 year olds can get half price travel on single tickets for their journey to and from their place of full time education with a Scholar's Permit. Not a lot but there it is. It's hard to envisage free travel for 16-18 year olds when there's no free travel for under 16s?

I have not been entitled to any free travel since I was 5, including to or from school...

Under 21s also get a reduced price all operator bus season - £45.50 instead of the normal £60.

 

[HSTEd]

At this point it would be simpler just to abolish bus fares entirely, which would cost a surprisingly small amount of money (on order ~£3bn per year in the UK IIRC but I forget the exact number) but would also allow for various operational savings.

Everyone could use multiple entrance buses and there would be no fare admin or cash handling requirements.