16-25 discounts BEFORE 10am

[alex57601]

Before last year's ticket simplification, I understand that on weekday's you couldn't buy a ticket with a 16-25 railcard discount before 10am on most walk-on tickets unless it was in July or August. Since then I have noticed that Northern now seem to allow 16-25 discounts after 9.30am, and while pricing up an Off-Peak Return ticket to Milton Keynes Central for tomorrow I noticed that even though I intend to start my journey well before 10am/9.30am/whatever the limit is these days, National Rail says that I can get a 16-25 discount.

The journey in concern is from Appley Bridge to Milton Keynes Central, leaving Appley Bridge at 8.45am, arriving into Milton Keynes Central at 11.46am, returning via Birmingham New Street on the 12.13pm (the service currently diagrammed for the 90 + Mk3s, and the reason for doing this). National Rail advertises the Off-Peak Return fare at £34.25 with 16-25 discount, and I am allowed to go via Birmingham.

Is National Rail telling the truth and I can use my railcard on this journey? Any prompt help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[glynn80]

Before last year's ticket simplification, I understand that on weekday's you couldn't buy a ticket with a 16-25 railcard discount before 10am on most walk-on tickets unless it was in July or August. Since then I have noticed that Northern now seem to allow 16-25 discounts after 9.30am, and while pricing up an Off-Peak Return ticket to Milton Keynes Central for tomorrow I noticed that even though I intend to start my journey well before 10am/9.30am/whatever the limit is these days, National Rail says that I can get a 16-25 discount.

The journey in concern is from Appley Bridge to Milton Keynes Central, leaving Appley Bridge at 8.45am, arriving into Milton Keynes Central at 11.46am, returning via Birmingham New Street on the 12.13pm (the service currently diagrammed for the 90 + Mk3s, and the reason for doing this). National Rail advertises the Off-Peak Return fare at £34.25 with 16-25 discount, and I am allowed to go via Birmingham.

Is National Rail telling the truth and I can use my railcard on this journey? Any prompt help will be greatly appreciated.

It wasn't that you couldn't use your Railcard before 10am on Weekdays, it was just subject to a minimum fare of £16.00 or £8.00 depending on what ticket type you were purchasing.

The fare you talk about from Appley Bridge to Milton Keynes Central is one that even with the discount is higher than the minimum fares and thus you get the full discount. National Rail is telling the truth and you can purchase this ticket.

 

[dan_atki]

The 16-25 railcard is (and always has been) valid before 1000 at any time of the year. It is the ticket type the discount is applied to that carries the restriction of when you may/may not travel.

People often get confused with the 'minimum fare' that comes with the 16-25 Railcard, if travelling on a weekday before 1000. As a general rule of thumb all bar Anytime. Anytime Day, and European Open Return tickets have a minimum fare of £8.00, with Anytime (Day) Returns and European Open Returns having a minimum of £16. (E.g. if you wish to purchase a £20 Anytime Day return for travel at 0900 on a Wednesday morning, the fare would be £16. If you wait until after 1000 your fare will be discounted fully to £13.20).

Obviously there comes a point where the minimum fare doesn't make a difference (as 34% off is still equal to or above the minimum fare) - £24.20 for Anytime (Day) Returns/European Open Returns, and £12.10 for everything else.

Further details at http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/faqs/validity#1 and http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/what-is-a-16-25-railcard/minimum-fares

 

[alex57601]

Ahh I see, makes sense now, and I will bear this in mind in the future. Thanks for the quick replies!

 

[yorkie]

<p>The only change with 'simplification' is that NT changed some fares from Saver (Min 8 pounds) to Anytime (min 16 pounds), no bad thing for the most part but it did break their promise that no-one would pay a higher fare as a result of simplification.</p>

 

[350401]

Before last year's ticket simplification, I understand that on weekday's you couldn't buy a ticket with a 16-25 railcard discount before 10am on most walk-on tickets unless it was in July or August. Since then I have noticed that Northern now seem to allow 16-25 discounts

Does that mean you can use a YP Railcard to buy a Off peak day Return at 7.50am in the months of July and August? In particular, when travelling on the 07.51 Northern service from Chelford to Manchester Picc, will I be able to get the £4.55 CDR rather than pay £10.45 Anytime Rtn? If so, thats gone to save me a fortune this summer, given I've got a summer job in the city centre for the entirety of July

 

[Mintona]

Does that mean you can use a YP Railcard to buy a Off peak day Return at 7.50am in the months of July and August? In particular, when travelling on the 07.51 Northern service from Chelford to Manchester Picc, will I be able to get the £4.55 CDR rather than pay £10.45 Anytime Rtn? If so, thats gone to save me a fortune this summer, given I've got a summer job in the city centre for the entirety of July

Do you not have a season ticket?

 

[350401]

I do at the moment yes, but its a weekly. I'm weighing up whether come July, it is cheaper to get a season (£45 week) or pay on the train - 5x£4.55 cheap day returns come to £22.45 - half the price of the season ticket! Thus, if its valid to use a Y-P for a Cheap Day Return on the 07.51 train in July, it'd save me a fortune!

 

[scrapy]

During July and August you can get a third off the £10.40 anytime fare before 9.30am, or a third off the CDR after 9.30am. A CDR is not valid on the 07.51 service whether you have a railcard or not.

The CDR (known now to the public as an Off Peak day return)from CEL - MAN has a B1 restriction. It should not be confused with off peak (open) returns, which have different restrictions and those with a 2C restriction can be used at peak times on Virgin routes if a valid railcard or charity ID is held.

 

[350401]

During July and August you can get a third off the £10.40 anytime fare before 9.30am, or a third off the CDR after 9.30am. A CDR is not valid on the 07.51 service whether you have a railcard or not.

Cheers. That means its £6.85 ADR and thus £34.25/week - £10 saving compared to a season ticket. Does seem kinda daft that you cannot use a railcard to discount a season ticket for the months of July/August.

Another thing, late night insomnia/tinkering and all, I've noticed that Northern have changed the ticket restrictions on the Crewe-Mcr line in the new timetable from May 17th. Checking the NT website and journey planner, it seems that railcards are valid in from May 18th at rush-hour. The 07.51 and 09.09 trains are coming up as £4.10 single (Std Day Single with YP Discount) and £6.85 return (Anytime Day Return with YP Discount). Check them on 15 May (old timetable), and its £6.20/£10.40 (i.e. no discount). The same has happened for the Mid-Cheshire Line (Knutsford station at least) - YP discounts are being applied to rush-hour fares from May 17. Any idea what the rationale behind this is? (Not that I'm complaining!!)

 

[scrapy]

Think its more a fault with the journey planner, it may not have been updates for post May changes. The same journey planner shows a Cheshire day ranger at £11.10 as the cheapest return ticket (KNF - MAN), between 8.45am and 10am even though a non discounted SDR is £8.10.

Have certainally not heard of any removal of the £8/£16 minimum fares and it would be down to ATOC not Northern to agree this, as tickets from KNF to MAN can be used on other operators services between SPT and MAN, and CEL -MAN can also be used on Virgin, XC or ATW between WML and MAN.

 

[350401]

Yes, I guessed as much. Didn't want to look a potential gifthorse in the mouth though!

I do think that the 09.09 CEL to MAN should really be an off-peak train however. Its usually quite empty, as all the shoppers/day-trippers to Manchester and beyond wait for the 10.09. I know its no rationale in reality, but it would be nice gesture of goodwill from Northern, given they've axed the 08.19 (new timetable 08.13) so there is a huge gap in the timetable from 07.51 to 09.09.

(According to Chelford RUG, NT asked AXC to run their morning peak Brum-MAN train via the Crewe Line to free up a path on the Macclesfield/Stoke Line for another peak time stopper, and as a result had to axe the Chelford and Goostrey stops from the 07.55 Crewe origin local stopper. Justifiable on commercial grounds perhaps, despite Chelford having a footfall of 28,000 last year, but be nice to compensate us!!)

 

[scrapy]

(According to Chelford RUG, NT asked AXC to run their morning peak Brum-MCR train via the Crewe Line to free up a path on the Macclesfield/Stoke Line for another peak time stopper, and as a result had to axe the Chelford and Goostrey stops from the 07.55 Crewe origin local stopper. Justifiable on commercial grounds perhaps, despite Chelford having a footfall of 28,000 last year, but be nice to compensate us!!)

I agree that it is a long time between peak trains, would perhaps have been fairer to miss ALD and CHU as there are plenty of services from these stations to MAN, (and CHU benefits from the extra MAC to MAN service). However is obviously more commercially viable to stop at these stations instead (and probably takes less time due to lower speeds to accelerate/brake to/from). Services stopping at Cheadle Hulme also get a GMPTE subsidy.

As for the fares, whilst it would be nice to get earlier CDR's, if CEL gets a B3 restriction, ALD, WML, HTH and CHU would also have to have their restrictions changed (otherwise it would be cheaper for example to buy a CDR CEL - MAN than a SDR ALD - MAN) , which wouldn't make commercial sense and i'm sure Virgin wouldn't be too happy taking less revenue the 0927 from WML.

 

[yorkie]

... i'm sure Virgin wouldn't be too happy taking less revenue the 0927 from WML.

Virgin have no say in fares set by Northern so they'd just have to lump it.