16-25 Railcard and 1st Class Fares

[bb21]

So it is. I just typed from memory after looking at the journey planner.

It would appear that you're correct.

 

[calypso1802]

I just realised that we don't actually know where you're travelling from, although the advice given above doesn't really change. However given who your daughter & co are travelling with, we might be able to say whether the first class offering's worth it or not.

hi
they are travelling from Bristol temple meads to St ives. hopefully with 1 change at st erth.

 

[mikeg]

So should be with First Great Western who do First class advances and also the £5-£20 weekend/bank holiday upgrades on the train.
The summary of your situation is:
First class discount on advance fares, book at firstgreatwestern.co.uk, any other train company website or your local staffed station. These commit you to a specific train - by the way, don't book on the trainline, they charge booking fees.
No discount on first class on the day (walk up) fares such as off peak returns, except on a weekend/bank holiday you can buy them a standard class ticket and upgrade for up to £20 each way on the train.
Edit: £15, as you pass through three upgrade zones: See here http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=3973
Upgrades only available for walk up ticket holders, not standard class advance ticket holders.
In short, if going on a weekday it's probably cheaper to book in advance, otherwise on a weekend or bank holiday for both outward and return get two off peak returns and upgrade will probably be the cheapest, and has the advantage of not committing to a specific train.

First class freebies are a hot drink, mineral waters, biscuits and crisps.

 

[island]

Upgrades only available for walk up ticket holders, not standard class advance ticket holders.

Not quite. The upgrade can be purchased by any ticket holder, but an advance ticket holder must pay on train.

 

[Flamingo]

In short, if going on a weekday it's probably cheaper to book in advance, otherwise on a weekend or bank holiday for both outward and return get two off peak returns and upgrade will probably be the cheapest, and has the advantage of not committing to a specific train.

Again, not quite, do the math. Many ADVANCE 1st class tickets are cheaper than the off-peak standard class ticket, even before the weekend 1st upgrade is added. However, they do have the advantage of flexibility.

 

[calypso1802]

So should be with First Great Western who do First class advances and also the £5-£20 weekend/bank holiday upgrades on the train.
The summary of your situation is:
First class discount on advance fares, book at firstgreatwestern.co.uk, any other train company website or your local staffed station. These commit you to a specific train - by the way, don't book on the trainline, they charge booking fees.
No discount on first class on the day (walk up) fares such as off peak returns, except on a weekend/bank holiday you can buy them a standard class ticket and upgrade for up to £20 each way on the train.
Edit: £15, as you pass through three upgrade zones: See here http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=3973
Upgrades only available for walk up ticket holders, not standard class advance ticket holders.
In short, if going on a weekday it's probably cheaper to book in advance, otherwise on a weekend or bank holiday for both outward and return get two off peak returns and upgrade will probably be the cheapest, and has the advantage of not committing to a specific train.

First class freebies are a hot drink, mineral waters, biscuits and crisps.

thank you for the advice.
is that unlimited drinks crisps etc? as thinking of booking them 1st class to come home as they'll probably have no money left!!

 

[mikeg]

Doubt it's unlimited. Will be limited to one per customer. Though not sure if you can have a coffee AND mineral waters, the wording is a bit unclear to me. I've never actually travelled with First Great Western before, being up North. As flamingo said, 1st class advance may well be cheaper than a walk up fare plus an upgrade, my mistake. Also upgrades may be available to standard advance ticket holders as island said, I must have read it wrong. The FGW website I quoted provides details of advance prices and upgrade restrictions. Booking 1st class advance looks like the best option actually. Sorry for my mistakes.

 

[lyesbkz]

is that unlimited drinks crisps etc?

When I travelled from Cardiff to London (4hr) I was able to collect the offer more than once, obviously you'd have to be reasonable and you'd only get one bundle at a time (don't ask for 3 coffees), but feel free to go back after a while and ask for some 'more' coffee/etc., they didn't seem to have a problem at all with this.

 

[island]

thank you for the advice.
is that unlimited drinks crisps etc? as thinking of booking them 1st class to come home as they'll probably have no money left!!

If it's at-seat service (Monday-Friday until 1900) they can generally get one set of drink+snack each time the trolley passes, although if they haven't consumed the last one then it might look a little silly. If it's collecting from the buffet, I wouldn't try it until at least an hour and a half after I last did it. And as mentioned above, stockpiling or multiple requests (i.e. more than one per first-class passenger) are bad ideas.

 

[Flamingo]

No official limit with FGW, but it is intended for on-board consumption, a request for 24 bottles of water might be rejected.

 

[lyesbkz]

I'd be interested to know if the staff have a specific policy of what sort of requests should be honoured, or if they're just told to be 'reasonable' and allowed to interpret this how they see fit.

 

[Flamingo]

When we used to give away cans of pop in 1st class, there used to be certain individuals well known on the route, who used to come up the buffet and demand 24 or 48 cans on production of their £10 weekend upgrade slip. One of them had armed himself with a letter from some muppet which said that there was no limit on items, and used to produce it in a very aggressive manner.

The only way we could deal with him was to start opening all cans one at a time and handing them to him opened. When he objected, we'd say "But they are for on-board consumption, what's the problem with them being opened for you?"

Eventually a limit of three items was introduced on Weekend First. It's not still in place, but we don't give away anything more portable than 330 ml bottles of water any more.

 

[bb21]

The only way we could deal with him was to start opening all cans one at a time and handing them to him opened. When he objected, we'd say "But they are for on-board consumption, what's the problem with them being opened for you?"

He should have brought a couple of empty 2L bottles with him the second time around.

 

[scotsman]

He should have brought a couple of empty 2L bottles with him the second time around.

He should have been told that he was being unreasonable or ejected (barred), perhaps? I don't know the full circumstances

 

[Eng274]

Maybe a condition should be added to the TOC's passenger charter - doubt the CoC is the right place for such a triviality as complimentary products. Citing "ensuring availability of complimentary products throughout the entire journey", it would state that complimentary products are only claimable every x number of miles/ y number of minutes on board, starting at 0. This would vary depending on the route, I admit this opens up claims of people saying "I travelled from london to Carlisle, and I didn't get my second bottle of juice". You can't win..

 

[bb21]

Maybe a condition should be added to the TOC's passenger charter - doubt the CoC is the right place for such a triviality as complimentary products. Citing "ensuring availability of complimentary products throughout the entire journey", it would state that complimentary products are only claimable every x number of miles/ y number of minutes on board, starting at 0. This would vary depending on the route, I admit this opens up claims of people saying "I travelled from london to Carlisle, and I didn't get my second bottle of juice". You can't win..

How can you enforce it though? If it can't be enforced, then it's pointless putting it in there.

 

[SS4]

Maybe a condition should be added to the TOC's passenger charter - doubt the CoC is the right place for such a triviality as complimentary products. Citing "ensuring availability of complimentary products throughout the entire journey", it would state that complimentary products are only claimable every x number of miles/ y number of minutes on board, starting at 0. This would vary depending on the route, I admit this opens up claims of people saying "I travelled from london to Carlisle, and I didn't get my second bottle of juice". You can't win..

You may get away with putting in a minimum amount of refreshments to be provided to First Class customers although I would do it on the grounds of time rather than distance. TOCs could then choose whether or not to improve on this level of service.

In my heart of hearts I do believe there is nothing wrong with the current system, it's just the very few that take advantage spoiling it for everyone else again which makes me a sad panda
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When we used to give away cans of pop in 1st class, there used to be certain individuals well known on the route, who used to come up the buffet and demand 24 or 48 cans on production of their £10 weekend upgrade slip. One of them had armed himself with a letter from some muppet which said that there was no limit on items, and used to produce it in a very aggressive manner.

The only way we could deal with him was to start opening all cans one at a time and handing them to him opened. When he objected, we'd say "But they are for on-board consumption, what's the problem with them being opened for you?"

Eventually a limit of three items was introduced on Weekend First. It's not still in place, but we don't give away anything more portable than 330 ml bottles of water any more.

Pretend the toilets near them are out of order

 

[Eng274]

How can you enforce it though? If it can't be enforced, then it's pointless putting it in there.

How do conductors remember who got on where and who does/doesn't need their ticket checked? It isn't beyond the limit of a person's ability to identify who's had their share.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my heart of hearts I do believe there is nothing wrong with the current system, it's just the very few that take advantage spoiling it for everyone else again which makes me a sad panda

I agree with this, in general the present system is fine, and I wouldn't want to have to change it. As with many unpopular changes to anything in the world, its always the minority that's spoilt it for everyone else.

 

[bb21]

How do conductors remember who got on where and who does/doesn't need their ticket checked? It isn't beyond the limit of a person's ability to identify who's had their share.

So say someone has his share at Swindon and the rule says refreshments every 40 miles. He then asks for another drink at Bristol Parkway. What are staff to do?

In my opinion things are fine as they are. For the few that take advantage, staff can refuse on the ground that it was for "personal onboard consumption" like mentioned earlier. Maybe write that into the offerings for First Class passengers and state that excessive demands would be refused or something to that effect.

If you just go on the basis that the previous cup of tea hasn't lasted the stated number of miles, I'm sure that Daily Mail would be very interested in making something out of nothing here.

 

[furryfeet]

I emailed ATOC about this last week actually, and am awaiting a response.

Has the said "response" materialised yet ?

P.S. For those with "stereotyped" vision - a Student railcard can be purchased by anyone in full time education, regardless of age.

If someone is rowdy or annoys other passengers with their behaviour, then it is up to the guard to sort it out. It would indeed be interesting if someone took ATOC to court over this, if ATOC argue along the lines of "we do not want students in 1st class because we perceive them to be rowdy".

 

[ralphchadkirk]

P.S. For those with "stereotyped" vision - a Student railcard can be purchased by anyone in full time education, regardless of age.

A 16-25 railcard can't though... which is what this thread's about.

 

[AlterEgo]

A 16-25 railcard can't though... which is what this thread's about.

They are the same thing. A 55 year old man can have a 16-25 Railcard if he's in full-time university education.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

They are the same thing. A 55 year old man can have a 16-25 Railcard if he's in full-time university education.

You're quite right, you can! Defeats the point of calling them 16-25 railcards then...

 

[AlterEgo]

You're quite right, you can! Defeats the point of calling them 16-25 railcards then...

Yeah, I've never really got the point of that either. It's quite bizarre!

 

[Greenback]

When I was a mature student, it was a Young Person's Railcard. I considered myself a Young Person in those days, even though I was over 25!

I don't think there were any FC discounts in those days, but as a poor student I couldn't afford the tickets in any case!

 

[calypso1802]

No official limit with FGW, but it is intended for on-board consumption, a request for 24 bottles of water might be rejected.

lovely thanks for the help - may well be worth booking them 1st class for the journey home s they probably won't have any money left!!!!