166/165 turbos and SDO

[TheWalrus]

Hi I've been wondering with turbos being proposed for FGWs west routes how will they deal with platforms shorter than 3 cars ie St James' Park, Avoncliff, Melksham and Dilton Marsh? Can SDO be installed on the turbos or will they just not call?

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[t_star2001uk]

Hi I've been wondering with turbos being proposed for FGWs west routes how will they deal with platforms shorter than 3 cars ie St James' Park, Avoncliff, Melksham and Dilton Marsh? Can SDO be installed on the turbos or will they just not call?

Cheers,

Ryan

Either by using a 2 car or the train crew will lock out any vehicles not accomodated at the platforms.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I am assuming that they would not be used DOO in the West, and so a guard would still be present. In which case can just one door be opened, as is currently the case on say the 150's used? Or is it a case that because they can be used DOO, the driver controls the doors and so there isn't the option to just open the "local" door?

 

[swt_passenger]

Or by lengthening platforms, or by retrofitting SDO to the units - as it clearly mentions in NR's plans for the area?

a review of station operations at all stations where cascaded DMU trains are due to stop;
this may result in platform extensions; selective door opening; revisions to permissive
working for attaching; detaching; platform sharing arrangements and alterations to signal
controls and signal locations to deal with changes to train operations.

There seems to be a default position in some poster's replies that certain changes won't ever happen, why is this?

 

[Buttsy]

I don't think you can lock out any vehicles not at the platform as the 17:32 Oxford - Worcester was always a 2-car 165 so it could fit in at Combe & Finstock (at least) and was often rammed. A 3 car couldn't be used as it wouldn't fit in the platforms. The overcrowding problem has been alleviated by use of a 180 with SDO.

I would expect a wodge of platform lengthening, use of 2 cars to cram people in or have SDO fitted.

If 165s go into Cornwall, I have no idea how even a 2-car will fit into Coombe Junction Halt without SDO.

 

[TEW]

Currently 165s and 166s are unable to call at stations with short platforms. If a 3-car Turbo turns up on the evening Cotswold Halts service it has to skip a fair few stops. There is no provision for a local door to be opened as the only door controls are operated by the driver in the cab.

 

[TheWalrus]

So really SDO would have to be fitted but could it be done and how?

 

[TEW]

I expect it could be fitted. Alternatively if you fit guard door controls throughout the train you could just open a local door at short platforms, as happens on the West fleet now.

 

[TheWalrus]

Could it be done from the cab?

 

[TEW]

Potentially an SDO system could be. It would be much easier just to fit guards door controls throughout though as the current set up doesn't work well with Driver&Guard operation and will likely meet with union opposition too.

 

[jopsuk]

There seems to be a default position in some poster's replies that certain changes won't ever happen, why is this?

it's quite a common occurrence- the idea that unit formations are fixed, that systems cannot be modified and that train interiors are fixed.

I'm also baffled by the assumption that just because it is proposed that Turbos will operate into Devon and Cornwall, that they'll therefore operate everything. It could well be that 150s will be retained for the quieter branch lines such as Looe.

 

[TheWalrus]

I don't think they will operate everything, but there is no clear indication of what they will operate so could end up anywhere. Although I sincerely hope they don't operate Cardiff-Portsmouth!

 

[BurtonM]

I think Coombe Junction Halt (and the Looe Valley line) is a special case!
Perhaps a single unit could be acquired or retained for that line?

 

[455driver]

Either by using a 2 car or the train crew will lock out any vehicles not accomodated at the platforms.

When did it become legal to lock doors on coaches with passengers in?
Or are you just guessing what can happen because you don't actually know?

 

[Buttsy]

When did it become legal to lock doors on coaches with passengers in?
Or are you just guessing what can happen because you don't actually know?

I remember mates being locked in a train back from Brighton after a football match there, but there again, us football fans weren't considered human back in the 70s and 80s...

Locking doors other than by SDO (becuase the door is not at the platform) is not considered to be an appropriate response to such a situation these days.

 

[rebmcr]

Parts of trains can be locked out before service (empty of passengers), and unlocked after passing the short platforms.

 

[455driver]

Ah of course, something that happened in the 70s is obviously relevant to how trains are operated today! :roll:

A door (and in certain circumstances 2 doors) can be locked out on some carriages but 2 doors cant be locked out so the rest of the train can have the doors released at a platform.

There are very specific rules and regs that traincrew (guards especially) will be aware of.

 

[jon91]

Parts of trains can be locked out before service (empty of passengers), and unlocked after passing the short platforms.

That's assuming all of the short platforms are conveniently grouped together, otherwise it seems you'd have a train carrying a lot of fresh air for most of its journey...

 

[rebmcr]

That's assuming all of the short platforms are conveniently grouped together, otherwise it seems you'd have a train carrying a lot of fresh air for most of its journey...

That does happen on the Mid-Cheshire Line if a pair of 142s run.

 

[Buttsy]

Ah of course, something that happened in the 70s is obviously relevant to how trains are operated today! :roll:

As you may have noted with my follow on comment, we don't do that anymore. I was being anecdotal, not serious. :roll:

I'm sorry for forgetting that one shouldn't make a general comment or re-live a memory on this site as someone will get on their high-horse about the relevance of that comment to the thread.

 

[455driver]

As you may have noted with my follow on comment, we don't do that anymore. I was being anecdotal, not serious.

After reading back through it I can see that and apologise!

 

[Buttsy]

After reading back through it I can see that and apologise!

No worries

 

[A-driver]

I don't know how similar 166/5s are to 465/365s but the networkers have a system where you can either open all doors, all but the rear coach, all but the front coach or front coach only. Not sure if the diesel versions have this aswell but if so then problem solved...

 

[TEW]

No, the FGW 165/6s aren't that flexible. It's either all or nothing. Hence if a 3-car Turbo turns up vice a 180 on certain diagrams it has to skip some stops on the Cotswold Line which can only take a 2-car Turbo.

 

[TheWalrus]

No, the FGW 165/6s aren't that flexible. It's either all or nothing. Hence if a 3-car Turbo turns up vice a 180 on certain diagrams it has to skip some stops on the Cotswold Line which can only take a 2-car Turbo.

Just Combe and Finstock?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

When did it become legal to lock doors on coaches with passengers in?
Or are you just guessing what can happen because you don't actually know?

It happens every day in a 165 at Bearley station. It does require a local instruction to be printed in the notices but when a 3 car class 165 stops in the two car platform a door will have been locked out of use at the station previous to the short platform and reopened at the station after. I believe a similar thing used to happen at Bedworth when a long train called at the station. I think in both cases this was allowed because only one of the doors needs to be locked out of use, not the entire coach.

 

[455driver]

It happens every day in a 165 at Bearley station. It does require a local instruction to be printed in the notices but when a 3 car class 165 stops in the two car platform a door will have been locked out of use at the station previous to the short platform and reopened at the station after. I believe a similar thing used to happen at Bedworth when a long train called at the station. I think in both cases this was allowed because only one of the doors needs to be locked out of use, not the entire coach.

Yes one door locked out which is fine, what <wotsisface> was proposing was locking a whole coach (with passengers) out which is simply not done!

 

[TEW]

Just Combe and Finstock?

Shipton in the up direction too. Not sure how long Ascott is either.

 

[jimm]

Shipton in the up direction too. Not sure how long Ascott is either.

For the uninitiated, the up platform at Shipton is the one used by trains towards Oxford.

Both platforms at Ascott-under-Wychwood can take a 3-car Turbo set. The up platform was built in 2011 for the Cotswold Line redoubling and the other was extended by the few extra metres required at the same time. There are some pictures of the work at Ascott, mixed in among lots of others from the project here, on pages 4,5 and 6:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/willc2009/sets/72157624136810327/

 

[Qwerty133]

Yes one door locked out which is fine, what <wotsisface> was proposing was locking a whole coach (with passengers) out which is simply not done!

I've been on a train with both doors on one side of the coach out of order, known to train crew and unresolved after a number of hours.