17.39 Birmingham New Street To Derby

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

I very rarely travel Birmingham New Street to Derby but did so tonight and caught the 17.39 off New Street. Much to my surprise the all stations (apart from Peartree) service to Derby was formed of a Voyager! Does anyone know if this is normal for this service?

Any information would be gratefully received!

Kind regards,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[NSE]

I'd be staggered if it was haha, I know they can occasionally appear on the Stansted route as far as Leicester. Makes a nice change I'm sure!

 

[Minilad]

No it's not usual. XC are a few 170s short at the moment though so a Voyager substituting would be possible

 

[RichmondCommu]

No it's not usual. XC are a few 170s short at the moment though so a Voyager substituting would be possible

Many thanks for this Just out of interest why are XC short of class 170's at the moment?

Whilst a train is certainly better than no train one of the carriages had to be locked out due to the short platforms at Wilnecote and Willington and the external information screens could not display the station calls. In terms of the information displays I'm surprised that they were not functioning given that the stations are on the XC network.

Just one other question Assuming that the Voyager was a "spare set" can I assume that it would have been operating local services throughout the day or was it simply a convenient way of getting it back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

Thanks again

 

[PHILIPE]

This is a train from Cardiff to Nottingham and is booked for a 170 so a Voyager is rare. Post #3 explains why a Voyager may have appeared on this service.

 

[Sniffingmoose]

The 17:39 Birmingham to Derby is sometimes a Voyager. Trouble is that they have to lock one coach out of use because I believe Willington has a short platform.

 

[PHILIPE]

Many thanks for this Just out of interest why are XC short of class 170's at the moment?

Whilst a train is certainly better than no train one of the carriages had to be locked out due to the short platforms at Wilnecote and Willington and the external information screens could not display the station calls. In terms of the information displays I'm surprised that they were not functioning given that the stations are on the XC network.

Just one other question Assuming that the Voyager was a "spare set" can I assume that it would have been operating local services throughout the day or was it simply a convenient way of getting it back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

Thanks again

For one, a 170 was damaged, the leading coach badly and now at Wolverton after striking a cow on the line near Lydney. There is a lengthy thread on the Forum about this incident.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The 17:39 Birmingham to Derby is sometimes a Voyager. Trouble is that they have to lock one coach out of use because I believe Willington has a short platform.

Sorry I stuffed up! Mean't to say 17.39! What a muppet!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is a train from Cardiff to Nottingham and is booked for a 170 so a Voyager is rare. Post #3 explains why a Voyager may have appeared on this service.

Sorry I should have said 17.39

 

[Philip Elliott]

The booked set 170117 was used on the 16.09 to Leicester and 17.18 return.

 

[louis97]

Just one other question Assuming that the Voyager was a "spare set" can I assume that it would have been operating local services throughout the day or was it simply a convenient way of getting it back to Three Rivers for maintenance?

This service is formed using what would normally be the spare 170 at New Street, it has no other booked work in the day. I presume today there was no spare 170 because of the shortage of units, as a result the spare voyager at New Street was most likely used for this service, which as others have said is fairly common.

 

[TheBigD]

This is a train from Cardiff to Nottingham and is booked for a 170 so a Voyager is rare. Post #3 explains why a Voyager may have appeared on this service.

No it isn't... It precedes the Cardiff to Nottingham service by 10 minutes...

The 1739 Birmingham to Derby is booked for a 2 car 170... It's diagrammed as the hot spare, then 1739 to Derby, ECS back then the 2025 to Cambridge, though the last part frequently gets swapped for a different 170...

 

[RichmondCommu]

No it isn't... It precedes the Cardiff to Nottingham service by 10 minutes...

The 1739 Birmingham to Derby is booked for a 2 car 170... It's diagrammed as the hot spare, then 1739 to Derby, ECS back then the 2025 to Cambridge, though the last part frequently gets swapped for a different 170...

That's my fault I'm afraid as I stupidly originally quoted the wrong train time!

Many thanks for the information though. I wonder whether on this occasion the Voyager made it all the way to Cambridge?

 

[TheBigD]

Many thanks for the information though. I wonder whether on this occasion the Voyager made it all the way to Cambridge?

No it didn't... 170104 did the Cambridge service...

I'm not aware of a Voyager ever going past Leicester on the Stansted run...

 

[Ianno87]

No it didn't... 170104 did the Cambridge service...

I'm not aware of a Voyager ever going past Leicester on the Stansted run...

My understanding is that Voyagers are not route cleared for all of the Stansted route.

 

[Rich McLean]

My understanding is that Voyagers are not route cleared for all of the Stansted route.

A Voyager can cover for 170s on the following, providing there is a TM available who signs both the route and traction:
Cardiff to Nottingham via New Street and Derby
New Street to Leicester

They cannot work east of Leicester due to route clearance issues

170s can also stand in between New Street and Manchester, and happens if the Voyager hot spare has already been put into traffic if the booked traction is delayed.

 

[TheBigD]

A Voyager can cover for 170s on the following, providing there is a TM available who signs both the route and traction:
Cardiff to Nottingham via New Street and Derby
New Street to Leicester

They cannot work east of Leicester due to route clearance issues

170s can also stand in between New Street and Manchester, and happens if the Voyager hot spare has already been put into traffic if the booked traction is delayed.

170's have also deputised for Voyagers between Birmingham and Bristol Parkway on at least 1 occasion in the past...

 

[Rich McLean]

170's have also deputised for Voyagers between Birmingham and Bristol Parkway on at least 1 occasion in the past...

Before my time at XC. It can be done now, either by Bristol or Birmingham Crew, but that's avoided as much as possible. 170s are cleared from Temple Meads as well from the days they were with SWT

 

[LowLevel]

The 1739 is a regular kick out for anything they have available, it's the most common of the ex Central services to be worked by a Voyager. It's also the first one to be cancelled if it comes to it!

 

[NSE]

I believe the only restriction beyond Leicester towards Stansted is the actual platform at Stansted. XC use the shorter platform 2, which is entirely in the open. The Voyagers won't fit and would have to use platforms 1 or 3. But they can't because those platforms continue underneath the terminal building and there isn't any ventilation to extract the fumes. Also, the Stansted Express runs 8 car all day and so can't go into platform 2 and therefore there is no spare space in 1 or 3 for a Voyager. Otherwise I believe they could quite easily run all the way to Stansted.

 

[ChrisHogan]

No it isn't... It precedes the Cardiff to Nottingham service by 10 minutes...

The 1739 Birmingham to Derby is booked for a 2 car 170... It's diagrammed as the hot spare, then 1739 to Derby, ECS back then the 2025 to Cambridge, though the last part frequently gets swapped for a different 170...

The 1739 New Street to Derby is the sole survivor of the 3 tph CT service from New Street to Derby introduced at the same time as the Princess timetable. Some of these xx39s went through to Matlock originally.

 

[TheBigD]

I believe the only restriction beyond Leicester towards Stansted is the actual platform at Stansted. XC use the shorter platform 2, which is entirely in the open. The Voyagers won't fit and would have to use platforms 1 or 3. But they can't because those platforms continue underneath the terminal building and there isn't any ventilation to extract the fumes. Also, the Stansted Express runs 8 car all day and so can't go into platform 2 and therefore there is no spare space in 1 or 3 for a Voyager. Otherwise I believe they could quite easily run all the way to Stansted.

Platform 2 at Stansted was extended a few years ago... It takes 4 x 23m vehicles now... Indeed there's a Sunday XC turn which is a 4 car 170...

 

[PHILIPE]

Before my time at XC. It can be done now, either by Bristol or Birmingham Crew, but that's avoided as much as possible. 170s are cleared from Temple Meads as well from the days they were with SWT

170s are not cleared between Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple Meads. Sure to be OK but as they were never intended to be diagrammed there, they just weren't published as OK. That seems to be the practice now and clearance has to be arranged retrospectively if required. They're OK to Bristol Parkway in event of Nottingham to Cardiff diversions. Apart from the one which turned round at Parkway recently, there was a case about 3 years ago when there was no Voyager for 2000 Bristol TM to Birmingham, a 170 was sent down from the Midlands to start the train at Bristol Parkway.

 

[headshot119]

A Voyager can cover for 170s on the following, providing there is a TM available who signs both the route and traction:
Cardiff to Nottingham via New Street and Derby
New Street to Leicester

They cannot work east of Leicester due to route clearance issues

170s can also stand in between New Street and Manchester, and happens if the Voyager hot spare has already been put into traffic if the booked traction is delayed.

The 170s have also been known to stand in as far as Bristol Parkway from Birmingham.

 

[NSE]

Platform 2 at Stansted was extended a few years ago... It takes 4 x 23m vehicles now... Indeed there's a Sunday XC turn which is a 4 car 170...

Whilst a Super Voyager is out the question, does that mean it can take a Voyager?

 

[PHILIPE]

The 170s have also been known to stand in as far as Bristol Parkway from Birmingham.

Post #16 has beaten you to it.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Whilst a Super Voyager is out the question, does that mean it can take a Voyager?

Lengthwise yes, but it is a moot point given that 220s aren't route-cleared past Leicester.

 

[Jd12]

As others have mentioned it's simply just to cover a shortage of 170's, if it's looking like it won't be needed to swap out any other voyagers it'll be used to cover that diagram only. It'll then reverse at Derby and head back to the middle siding at new street as 5D39, it'll then sit there till around 8 ish when it'll form 5D99 to CZ going round the houses in the process to keep up diversionary route knowledge. The reason it can't display stations is because each voyager trip is loaded into the TMS system which you simply select which trip you're doing, but as it's not normally a voyager route it's not loaded into the TMS system.

 

[nottinghamcity]

it'll form 5D99 to CZ going round the houses in the process to keep up diversionary route knowledge. The reason it can't display stations.

That is seriously around the houses! BHM to Central Rivers via Aston, Stafford, and the Trent Valley line!