1729 Three Bridges to Bedford (2W56) ran twice?

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class387

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Two of this train with the same headcode and times at stations ran today, one timetabled and one as a STP.

Thameslink has quoted on their Live Travel Information that:
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 23/07/16 17:29 Three Bridges to Bedford due 19:49.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

RTT shows:
2W56: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G74366/2016/07/23/advanced
2W56 (STP): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O14423/2016/07/23/advanced

Anyone know why there would be this, and what the problem may be?
 
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Class377/5

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Two of this train with the same headcode and times at stations ran today, one timetabled and one as a STP.

Thameslink has quoted on their Live Travel Information that:


RTT shows:
2W56: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G74366/2016/07/23/advanced
2W56 (STP): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O14423/2016/07/23/advanced

Anyone know why there would be this, and what the problem may be?

The system like RTT just looks for the headcode on detection so if the system has two it will pick up twice as each train is shown at the location correct as 2W56 so they system works off that, not the more complex individual codes. As a result the train can be shown twice like this. Big clue here is the same times at every calling point shows both paths are picking up a singe train.

The reason for multiple paths is due to the 700 cascade. The LTP (long term plan for those not in the know) is the base six month timetable that is currently the Summer timetable from may until December. Any changes to this is STP (short term planning) which is done a few weeks out for events like engineering work. You also have VSTP, Very Short Term planning which basically is within a few hours, ie on the day.

As part of the 700 introduction there have been massive changes to way that the LTP plan works with each 700 introduced properly affecting something like 20-30 different trains. As a result with changes pretty much every other week there is a huge amount of alterations so not every path on the LTP gets cancelled off which is what happens here.

The reason for the massive changes from each train is best shown through the a single 700 displacing two 387s (as has happened lately) which then alters the workings of that 8 car as well as its own. As the 387s are now going to many more places there are changes to other diagrams to make sure the 387s end up where they need to and that the 319s go where they need to. Example of this would be routes like Sevenoaks where SE driver don't sign 387s so you might have to alter which service a diagram goes onto to ensure you have a trained driver.

Its all very complex but basically the double paths is the result of the 700 cascade. Hope that helps?
 

louis97

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The system like RTT just looks for the headcode on detection so if the system has two it will pick up twice as each train is shown at the location correct as 2W56 so they system works off that, not the more complex individual codes. As a result the train can be shown twice like this. Big clue here is the same times at every calling point shows both paths are picking up a singe train.

The reason for multiple paths is due to the 700 cascade. The LTP (long term plan for those not in the know) is the base six month timetable that is currently the Summer timetable from may until December. Any changes to this is STP (short term planning) which is done a few weeks out for events like engineering work. You also have VSTP, Very Short Term planning which basically is within a few hours, ie on the day.

As part of the 700 introduction there have been massive changes to way that the LTP plan works with each 700 introduced properly affecting something like 20-30 different trains. As a result with changes pretty much every other week there is a huge amount of alterations so not every path on the LTP gets cancelled off which is what happens here.

The reason for the massive changes from each train is best shown through the a single 700 displacing two 387s (as has happened lately) which then alters the workings of that 8 car as well as its own. As the 387s are now going to many more places there are changes to other diagrams to make sure the 387s end up where they need to and that the 319s go where they need to. Example of this would be routes like Sevenoaks where SE driver don't sign 387s so you might have to alter which service a diagram goes onto to ensure you have a trained driver.

Its all very complex but basically the double paths is the result of the 700 cascade. Hope that helps?

Whilst what you describe does happen because of the 700 cascade, this isn't an example of this.

This train was not showing on the CIS screens for whatever reason. As a result of the Darwin system the creation of a duplicate path like this will make it appear with the stations en route receiving the train information via the Darwin feed. The Darwin feed brings together a range of different feeds and therefore this caused a message on journey check and an additional schedule to be generated in TRUST.
 

Class377/5

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Whilst what you describe does happen because of the 700 cascade, this isn't an example of this.

This train was not showing on the CIS screens for whatever reason. As a result of the Darwin system the creation of a duplicate path like this will make it appear with the stations en route receiving the train information via the Darwin feed. The Darwin feed brings together a range of different feeds and therefore this caused a message on journey check and an additional schedule to be generated in TRUST.

Darwin doesn't feed TRUST, it cannot put paths into TRUST. They have to be created in either NR TPS or via TRUST so your reasoning doesn't hold water.

As I said this is a common issue in TRSUT but because of the 700 cascade and the major affect it has on the STP, it means something gets missed. Don't forget websites like RTT and systems like Tyrell, Darwin don't see very path in the TRUST system. (In fcat not all TRUST users see all paths either).
 

louis97

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Darwin doesn't feed TRUST, it cannot put paths into TRUST. They have to be created in either NR TPS or via TRUST so your reasoning doesn't hold water.

As I said this is a common issue in TRSUT but because of the 700 cascade and the major affect it has on the STP, it means something gets missed. Don't forget websites like RTT and systems like Tyrell, Darwin don't see very path in the TRUST system. (In fcat not all TRUST users see all paths either).

Good point, slight misinterpretation of a diagram i'd seen, Darwin only gets info from them and dosen't send anything back.

Makes sense for the CIS to miss a train if various systems can't see all paths then.
 

Class377/5

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Good point, slight misinterpretation of a diagram i'd seen, Darwin only gets info from them and dosen't send anything back.

Makes sense for the CIS to miss a train if various systems can't see all paths then.

No worries. With so many alterations in the system means it can struggle to work out what's right and what's not.

There has been cases where there are multiple trains in the database for a single headcode (my record was 7 incorrect with no correct one).
 
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