18-25 RailCard and Oyster PAYG?

[MartyB]

Heya,

Hopefully you can help me out.

I'm moving down to London soon so will be using the bus/trains a lot. I am going to get myself an Oyster card so i can put my annual bus on it.

However something i am struggling to understand is PAYG oyster and the 18-25 railcard.

I will be travelling to and from Fenchurch > Upminster (where i work) and back again. The price is £5.40 for a return off peak. But if was to buy a 18-25 railcard for £26 a year, i get 1/3 off the price of tickets? which means it comes to £3.60 for a return off peak ? Is that right ?!
Since work 6/7am - 3/4pm or 12pm-9pm i pretty much miss the peak times everyday. But to just pay £26 to get 1/3 off the tickets for the whole year sounds too good to be true ... ?

Annual = £2,016
Me paying as you at 1/3 off = 3.6 * 5 = £18 a week * 52 weeks = £936

A saving of around £1,000 give or take .. ?

:roll:

 

[sonic2009]

Welcome to the Forum MartyB

a 16-25 railcard cost £28 per year, but saves not only on Oyster PAYG, but also on most national rail fares across the country. Here is some more info

16-25 Railcard

A annual Z1 - Z6 travelcard indeed costs £2,016 without any discount.

If you just have a normal adult oyster card without buying a 16-25 railcard you will pay for Journey London Fenchurch Street - Upminster.

£4.50 single

Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.

£2.70 single at all other times.

If you have your 16-25 railcard loaded onto your Oyster Card you will pay the Same Price as Adult's at Peak Times listed above, but only £1.80 single at all other times.

So depending on your work times prices can change every week..

I'm not the most ideal person to talk about Oyster Card fares etc, as i dont live in London, but other members who live around London, and understand the complex Oyster Card system will be along soon..

 

[Mike395]

I think the Railcard discount on Oyster only applies to the travelcard cap, as opposed to individual fares.

That's no longer the case, except in the peaks (both morning and evening, although evening peak travel is capped at the discounted off-peak travelcard rate)

 

[lemonic]

I think the Railcard discount on Oyster only applies to the travelcard cap, as opposed to individual fares.
Also, with regard to train fares, a £12 minimum fare applies when using a 16-25 railcard before 09:30 (except during July and August).

Unfortunately both points here are (at least partially) wrong.

Since the beginning of the year, you can get a 1/3 off off-peak Oyster Pay as you Go with a railcard. Also the minimum fare on paper tickets applies before 10:00 not 09:30, but does not apply to Oyster PAYG.

 

[MartyB]

I don't understand the minimum fare thing ? does that mean i will be charged £12 for travelling before 10am ? i don't quite understand how it work since im completely new at this lol Hopefully you can see my way of thinking .. ?

Btw, thank you for your quick responses, it has helped me a lot. Piece of mind to say the least.

 

[Mike395]

I don't understand the minimum fare thing ? does that mean i will be charged £12 for travelling before 10am ?

Not on Oyster, but on any other rail service, the minimum fare when using your 16-25 Railcard is £12 before 10am - this means that, for example, if an anytime single/return is 12.90, the discounted fare would be £12. Similarly, if the anytime fare is less than £12, you won't be able to get a railcard discount on it (Well, TVMs will issue it, but the price will be more, not less! :P)

 

[sonic2009]

I don't understand the minimum fare thing ? does that mean i will be charged £12 for travelling before 10am ? i don't quite understand how it work since im completely new at this lol Hopefully you can see my way of thinking .. ?

Btw, thank you for your quick responses, it has helped me a lot. Piece of mind to say the least.

The minimum fare means that if your ticket without your 16-25 railcard discount is lower than £12. you will be charged £12 before 10am as a minimum fare applies, in some cases if you travel before 10am it is easier for you to just get the undiscounted ticket.

 

[MartyB]

well in that case i will be cause starting work at 6am i will be charged £12?

For Example:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/FST/UPM/tomorrow/0600/arr/tomorrow/1500/dep

Tickets Price
Single Fare - Outward journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Outward total £3.30

Single Fare - Return journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Return total £3.30

Total £6.60

##

"Oyster is a convenient and cheap way to travel around London. Oyster card £3.60 (Saving you £3.00)"

I apologise if im having "a blonde moment" but it's not just clicking ..

 

[Mike395]

well in that case i will be cause starting work at 6am i will be charged £12?

For Example:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/FST/UPM/tomorrow/0600/arr/tomorrow/1500/dep

Tickets Price
Single Fare - Outward journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Outward total £3.30

Single Fare - Return journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Return total £3.30

Total £6.60

##

"Oyster is a convenient and cheap way to travel around London. Oyster card £3.60 (Saving you £3.00)"

I apologise if im having "a blonde moment" but it's not just clicking ..

No, with the railcard loaded onto your Oyster, it would cost you £1.80 each way still

 

[MikeWh]

So much confusion on this thread.

As far as Oyster is concerned you will get the discounted fare of £1.80 whenever off-peak fares are charged, so before 0630, between 0930 and 1600, and after 1900. The crucial time is the touch in time. Moreover, should you need to travel from Upminster TO Fenchurch Street between 1600 and 1900 you will still get the discount because TfL fares apply on that line and you get off-peak in the evening if you start outside zone 1 and finish in zone 1. Oyster has no concept of minimum fares before 10am which gives it a big advantage over paper tickets if you can travel outside of the actual morning peak (0630-0930).

Also, to other posters, Railcard discounts have always been available on National Rail services under Oyster, both single fares and the off-peak cap. In January 2011 this was extended to include Underground and DLR single fares as well.

 

[bb21]

well in that case i will be cause starting work at 6am i will be charged £12?

For Example:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/FST/UPM/tomorrow/0600/arr/tomorrow/1500/dep

Tickets Price
Single Fare - Outward journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Outward total £3.30

Single Fare - Return journey
1 x Adult - Anytime Day Single(16-25 RAILCARD)Saving £1.70 £3.30
Return total £3.30

Total £6.60

##

"Oyster is a convenient and cheap way to travel around London. Oyster card £3.60 (Saving you £3.00)"

I apologise if im having "a blonde moment" but it's not just clicking ..

It's not clicking because it is completely and utterly bonkers. It has so many complications that you really need a degree in railway ticketing to be able to understand it.

Back on topic, you can make a saving on the itinerary you provided as minimum fares do not apply in July and August. The National Rail website is correct.

And, welcome to the forum.

You cannot use a 16-25 railcard discount before 10am in your case as it is more expensive than an undiscounted fare.

With railcard before 10am = £12
Discount will be useful for journeys AFTER 10am.

This is true in any month other than July or August. However the itinerary the OP provided is for next available departure immediately, hence the confusion.

To the OP: All the confusion aside, I refer you to MikeWh's post above which is an excellent summary of how Oyster works.

To sum up the points raised in this thread regarding normal paper tickets, of which only Anytime Day Single/Returns are available for purchase inside the London zonal boundary:

• A minimum fare of £12 applies to any railcard-discounted ticket, except in July and August where no minimum fare applies
• The discount is applicable at all times, however if the discounted fare is less than £12 then it is charged at £12. If the undiscounted fare is less than £12 then no discount will be applied.

 

[MartyB]

Heya guys,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write the replies!

After reading all the above, I'm thinking bout getting two oyster cards.
One Oyster I will have;
- x1 annual bus
- x1 PAYG
- x1 18-25 Railcard
Mainly use for evenings and anything after 10am
The other Oyster
- x1 PAYG
Used for early mornings

This way I won't have to worry any £12 minimum fare ! Lol

 

[yorkie]

One Oyster card will suffice, and you never need worry about the £12 minimum fare using an Oyster card. Please re-read MikeWh's reply above as I don't think it has sunk in yet (understandable as the UK rail ticketing system is incredibly complicated). I apologise that there was some incorrect information posted, I have removed two posts for this reason.

I don't know how early your "early mornings" are, but if you touch in before 0630 then you will be charged the cheaper discounted rate, irrespective of any minimum fare on paper tickets, the Oyster system will work out what the correct charge is and you do not have to worry about that (providing you always touch in / out). Ensure your card is registered online and you can easily check your journey history online and you can ask us if any part of it does not make sense after any particular journey. Can I also recommend you enable auto-top up, you can set this up online also, then you do not have to worry about topping up

 

[Mike395]

Heya guys,

Thanks so much for taking the time to write the replies!

After reading all the above, I'm thinking bout getting two oyster cards.
One Oyster I will have;
- x1 annual bus
- x1 PAYG
- x1 18-25 Railcard
Mainly use for evenings and anything after 10am
The other Oyster
- x1 PAYG
Used for early mornings

This way I won't have to worry any £12 minimum fare ! Lol

No need - the £12 minimum fare does not apply on Oyster - touching in before 9.30am (not 10am!) will just be treated as if your railcard wasn't loaded onto it

 

[dzug2]

You are getting far too hung up about this £12. It only applies to paper tickets. Even then if the undiscounted paper ticket cost less than £12, you'd pay the lower fare unless the guy in the booking office goofed big time.

If you are using Oyster then you only get charged the much cheaper Oyster fares capped at the one day travelcard rate. So no point in getting a separate Oyster. I can guarantee that if you do you'll use the wrong one on occasion and lose as a result.

 

[RJ]

So much confusion on this thread.

Agreed. This is supposed to be a forum where people ask for advice and receive a helpful answer. Instead we have obsessively detailed replies from people with an inability to filter out irrelevant information in their response. I mean, why have people started banging on about minimum fares and 10am starts when the OP was clearly asking about railcards on Oyster PAYG? It only causes confusion.

In response to your questions MartyB, the fares below are using an Oyster loaded with a railcard discount, on a typical Monday - Friday weekday.

Upminster - Fenchurch Street.

06:30 to 09:30 - £4.50

All other times - £1.80

Fenchurch Street - Upminster.

06:30 to 09:30 - £4.50
16:00 to 19:00 - £4.50
All other times - £1.80

Fares taken from http://www.tfl.gov.uk/farefinder

So it's only during the morning and evening peaks that a higher fare applies. If you can avoid starting your journey during the peak period, you can have a day return from £3.60. On Bank Holidays and weekends, off peak fares apply all day.

 

[bb21]

So no point in getting a separate Oyster. I can guarantee that if you do you'll use the wrong one on occasion and lose as a result.

Yes I second this. As everyone has said, you just need one Oystercard. You are charged an off-peak discounted fare as long as you touch in for a journey at the right time, regardless of when your train is and when you touch out. If you use two cards then it will cost more for them both to be capped and you might lose out that way too.

 

[island]

In response to your questions MartyB, the fares below are using an Oyster loaded with a railcard discount, on a typical Monday - Friday weekday.

Upminster - Fenchurch Street.

06:30 to 09:30 - £4.50
16:00 to 19:00 - £4.50
All other times - £1.80

Fenchurch Street - Upminster.

06:30 to 09:30 - £4.50
16:00 to 19:00 - £4.50
All other times - £1.80

So it's only during the morning and evening peaks that a higher fare applies.

It is a little ironic that an answer exhorting people to post carefully and correctly is itself wrong Upminster to Fenchurch Street is £1.80 1600-1900 (Oyster PAYG with Railcard), since the 2nd of January change whereby travel into zone 1 on TFL and "green" NR lines does not have an evening peak.

 

[LondonJohn]

Heya,

Hopefully you can help me out.

I'm moving down to London soon so will be using the bus/trains a lot. I am going to get myself an Oyster card so i can put my annual bus on it.

However something i am struggling to understand is PAYG oyster and the 18-25 railcard.

I will be travelling to and from Fenchurch > Upminster (where i work) and back again. The price is £5.40 for a return off peak. But if was to buy a 18-25 railcard for £26 a year, i get 1/3 off the price of tickets? which means it comes to £3.60 for a return off peak ? Is that right ?!
Since work 6/7am - 3/4pm or 12pm-9pm i pretty much miss the peak times everyday. But to just pay £26 to get 1/3 off the tickets for the whole year sounds too good to be true ... ?

Annual = £2,016
Me paying as you at 1/3 off = 3.6 * 5 = £18 a week * 52 weeks = £936

A saving of around £1,000 give or take .. ?

:roll:

I have an Oyster Application on my iphone that has fares on there. I have a Network Gold Card loaded to my PAYG oyster. On the fares section, the fare from Upminster to Fenchurch Street (National Rail) is £4.50 Monday to Friday 0630-0930 with a Railcard on PAYG and £1.80 at all other times. It is showing the non railcard fares for Oyster PAYG as £4.50 and £2.70 respectively.

Am happy for anybody to correct me but I dont think you will be able to travel at £1.80 each way. What you might want to do is to buy monthly tickets from now till the end of the year and then buy an Annual ticket on say 27 or 28 December just before the fares go up to what ever stupid prices they will be. This means that you will get NEXT years travel at THIS YEARS prices and you will always pay the increase a year behind everybody else.

Good luck in your new job and welcome to the ratrace.

 

[bb21]

Am happy for anybody to correct me but I dont think you will be able to travel at £1.80 each way.

My understanding is that the OP will buy a 16-25 Railcard and travel outside peak hours.

 

[MikeWh]

I will be travelling to and from Fenchurch > Upminster (where i work) and back again.
...
Since work 6/7am - 3/4pm or 12pm-9pm i pretty much miss the peak times everyday.

Am happy for anybody to correct me but I dont think you will be able to travel at £1.80 each way.

I take from the original post that the OP is living near Fenchurch Street and working near Upminster. Even if he starts work at 7am he should be able to touch in before 6.30am, which would make that journey off-peak. As the return is ending in zone 1 on a TfL scale NR line, off peak fares apply all afternoon. Therefore, based on the information given, I think off-peak both ways is highly likely.

Note to the OP: Even if your train in the morning is timed to leave at, say 06.35, the crucial time is the time you touch your card on the reader before you start. Do it before 06:30 and you will be charged off-peak as long as you complete the journey within the maximum time allowed for a 6 zone journey, which is 120 minutes. So touch out within 2 hours of the time you touch in and you will be fine.