19.07 London Euston to Liverpool Lime St

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frodshamfella

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I travelled on this service last Thursday. To my surprise it operated non stop to Runcorn, this is something I've not experienced since BR days.

Is the new or are there other services operating north and south the same ?
 
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Looking at the current timetable the 1907 is non stop Monday to Friday. The same happens in the morning with the 0700 from Liverpool which stops to pick up only at Runcorn 0715 arriving in London just gone 0900.
 

frodshamfella

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Looking at the current timetable the 1907 is non stop Monday to Friday. The same happens in the morning with the 0700 from Liverpool which stops to pick up only at Runcorn 0715 arriving in London just gone 0900.

Thank you.
 

Jamesrob637

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That's a damn quick succession of Pendos:

18:57 to Manchester
19:00 to Manchester
19:03 to Birmingham
19:07 to Liverpool
 

JonathanH

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In the initial VHF timetables, most of the Liverpool services only stopped at Stafford and Runcorn. Crewe was added to most services later.

The 1910 from Euston to Holyhead stops at Stafford to compensate.
 

dk1

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The 19:07 suffered some horrendous overcrowding particularly on Thursday/Friday and became non-stop to Runcorn around 4 years back. Not sure how bad Fridays are now following the withdrawal of peak ticket restrictions.
 

Puffing Devil

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That's a damn quick succession of Pendos:

18:57 to Manchester
19:00 to Manchester
19:03 to Birmingham
19:07 to Liverpool

1857 is Thursday and Friday relief train. Unfortunately, gone are the days when first class was declassified.
 

Starmill

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Crewe was removed from the 1907 and Macclesfield from the 1900 a few years ago to try to push people for those stations onto different services.

The 1907 makes it from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street in just 2 hours and 1 minute as a result - 2 minutes quicker than the 0700 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston. Omission of the Macclesfield call doesn't particularly reduce the running time of the 1900 sadly. Still 29 minutes Stoke-on-Trent to Stockport.
 
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frodshamfella

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The 19:07 suffered some horrendous overcrowding particularly on Thursday/Friday and became non-stop to Runcorn around 4 years back. Not sure how bad Fridays are now following the withdrawal of peak ticket restrictions.

It was very busy last Thursday evening.
 

voyagerdude220

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I'm sure it would be beneficial for the 19:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central to do something similar- say, run fast to Preston- it's always very busy, although of course the question is what would alternatively serve Warrington and Wigan.
 

Starmill

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The 1630 used to run express to Preston, but the idea apparently wasn't working out for them. The use of a 5 car on the 1633 probably doesn't help.
 

David Turner

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Network Rail in their wisdom haven’t shown the 19.07 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street in Table 65 of the downloadable timetable since the service began to run non stop to Runcorn. From memory that’s about FOUR YEARS. I have emailed Network Rail but it still isn’t shown. You’ve probably seen my posts when the new timetables are available for downloading.
 

Scotrail314209

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The 1630 used to run express to Preston, but the idea apparently wasn't working out for them. The use of a 5 car on the 1633 probably doesn't help.

As a result, I don't think the 16:33 is all that heavily loaded either. Maybe if they were to toy with things a bit and put a Pendolino on they could potentially make the 16:30 non stop again. Although, they may want it to be non stop up to Glasgow from Preston too, which means Lancaster, Oxenholme/Penrith & Carlisle lose out.
 

voyagerdude220

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As a result, I don't think the 16:33 is all that heavily loaded either. Maybe if they were to toy with things a bit and put a Pendolino on they could potentially make the 16:30 non stop again. Although, they may want it to be non stop up to Glasgow from Preston too, which means Lancaster, Oxenholme/Penrith & Carlisle lose out.

I'm guessing that would make it impossible for the 16:33 to call at either Kirkham and Wesham or Poulton le Fylde though. I don't think Pendolinos can call at either, but I'm not certain. I don't know about Kirkham, but up until a few years ago, I used to regularly see quite a reasonable volume of people leave the 16:33 at Poulton le Fylde.
 

Statto

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The 19:07 suffered some horrendous overcrowding particularly on Thursday/Friday and became non-stop to Runcorn around 4 years back. Not sure how bad Fridays are now following the withdrawal of peak ticket restrictions.

It still can be heaving that it justifies being non stop Euston-Runcorn, plus Monday to Thursday it's the first off peak to Liverpool after the afternoon/evening peak which doesn't help things either
 

dk1

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As a result, I don't think the 16:33 is all that heavily loaded either. Maybe if they were to toy with things a bit and put a Pendolino on they could potentially make the 16:30 non stop again. Although, they may want it to be non stop up to Glasgow from Preston too, which means Lancaster, Oxenholme/Penrith & Carlisle lose out.
When the 16:30 ran as the fast northbound train of the day calling Preston only it was often lightly loaded. Passengers for stations between there & Carlisle complained of the large gap from the 15:30 for a direct train & the slower nature of the following 16:57 as this made additional calls on the southern part of the route.
 

frodshamfella

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It still can be heaving that it justifies being non stop Euston-Runcorn, plus Monday to Thursday it's the first off peak to Liverpool after the afternoon/evening peak which doesn't help things either

Last Thursday it was 9 coaches and was packed, the service before which stopped had 11, I think it was 18.33 or there abouts. It left late anyway.
 

Ianno87

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When the 16:30 ran as the fast northbound train of the day calling Preston only it was often lightly loaded. Passengers for stations between there & Carlisle complained of the large gap from the 15:30 for a direct train & the slower nature of the following 16:57 as this made additional calls on the southern part of the route.

Guess the problem is for a Carlisle person doing a busines day in London, leaving at 1530 'feels' too early, but a 1657 (reaching Carlisle 2025) is probably getting back on the late side.

And there's no point running a 1630 fast if it's not well loaded. If anything, left VT open to challenge as to whether it was a good use of a peak path if it was lightly loaded (and just pushed a crowding problem onto other trains)
 

London Trains

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That's a damn quick succession of Pendos:

18:57 to Manchester
19:00 to Manchester
19:03 to Birmingham
19:07 to Liverpool

Normally off peak its

:00 Manchester
:03 Birmingham
:07 Liverpool
:10 Chester/Holyhead

so a very quick succession already and then the :57 path is a peak extra that runs to Glasgow or Manchester which makes 5 pendos in 13 minutes
 

class387

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Normally off peak its

:00 Manchester
:03 Birmingham
:07 Liverpool
:10 Chester/Holyhead

so a very quick succession already and then the :57 path is a peak extra that runs to Glasgow or Manchester which makes 5 pendos in 13 minutes
No Pendolinos operate to Chester - all 221s.
 

Hadders

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Taking a quick look at RTT typical fast line off peak departures from Euston are:

xx00 Manchester (first call Stoke on Trent)
xx03 Birmingham New Street (first call Rugby)
xx07 Liverpool (first call Stafford)
xx10 Chester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx15 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Ledburn Junction)
xx20 Manchester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx23 Birmingham (first call Watford)
xx30 Glasgow (first call Warrington)
xx40 Manchester (first call Crewe)
xx43 Edinburgh/Glasgow via West Midlands (first call Milton Keynes)
xx46 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Nuneaton, first call Milton Keynes)
xx49 Liverpool (LNR 110 mph fast line to Hanslope Junction, first call Milton Keynes)

Then add to this on some hours an XX36 Blackpool first call Rugby and the future 110 mph Grand Central Service to Blackpool at xx36 first call Milton Keynes.

This is impressive by anyone's standard, more services are run in the peak hours. I believe @Bald Rick and @ChiefPlanner have referred to the WCML timetable south of Rugby as a thing of beauty and I can see why (I look forward to reading more about it in their memoires!)

Anyone doubting the need for HS2 would do well to look at this and explain exactly how you would fit more trains onto the fast lines out of Euston.
 

London Trains

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Taking a quick look at RTT typical fast line off peak departures from Euston are:

xx00 Manchester (first call Stoke on Trent)
xx03 Birmingham New Street (first call Rugby)
xx07 Liverpool (first call Stafford)
xx10 Chester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx15 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Ledburn Junction)
xx20 Manchester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx23 Birmingham (first call Watford)
xx30 Glasgow (first call Warrington)
xx40 Manchester (first call Crewe)
xx43 Edinburgh/Glasgow via West Midlands (first call Milton Keynes)
xx46 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Nuneaton, first call Milton Keynes)
xx49 Liverpool (LNR 110 mph fast line to Hanslope Junction, first call Milton Keynes)

Then add to this on some hours an XX36 Blackpool first call Rugby and the future 110 mph Grand Central Service to Blackpool at xx36 first call Milton Keynes.

This is impressive by anyone's standard, more services are run in the peak hours. I believe @Bald Rick and @ChiefPlanner have referred to the WCML timetable south of Rugby as a thing of beauty and I can see why (I look forward to reading more about it in their memoires!)

Anyone doubting the need for HS2 would do well to look at this and explain exactly how you would fit more trains onto the fast lines out of Euston.

As well as in some hours xx:33 services to Blackpool and in peak times xx:57 to either Glasgow, Lancaster or Manchester.

Also the xx:49 LNWR is first stop Watford Junction.
 

pt_mad

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The 19:07 suffered some horrendous overcrowding particularly on Thursday/Friday and became non-stop to Runcorn around 4 years back. Not sure how bad Fridays are now following the withdrawal of peak ticket restrictions.

Crewe was removed from the 1907 and Macclesfield from the 1900 a few years ago to try to push people for those stations onto different services.

The 1907 makes it from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street in just 2 hours and 1 minute as a result - 2 minutes quicker than the 0700 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston. Omission of the Macclesfield call doesn't particularly reduce the running time of the 1900 sadly. Still 29 minutes Stoke-on-Trent to Stockport.
Nuneaton was also a call which was omitted from the 1907 when it became non stop Runcorn. The 1910 Holyhead service was given the Nuneaton and Stafford call as well as calling at Crewe as normal.

To those who had objections to HS2, the 1907 was always a good example to say hey look we need it because some services are full already.
 

Bald Rick

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Taking a quick look at RTT typical fast line off peak departures from Euston are:

xx00 Manchester (first call Stoke on Trent)
xx03 Birmingham New Street (first call Rugby)
xx07 Liverpool (first call Stafford)
xx10 Chester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx15 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Ledburn Junction)
xx20 Manchester (first call Milton Keynes)
xx23 Birmingham (first call Watford)
xx30 Glasgow (first call Warrington)
xx40 Manchester (first call Crewe)
xx43 Edinburgh/Glasgow via West Midlands (first call Milton Keynes)
xx46 Crewe (LNR 110 mph fast line to Nuneaton, first call Milton Keynes)
xx49 Liverpool (LNR 110 mph fast line to Hanslope Junction, first call Milton Keynes)

Then add to this on some hours an XX36 Blackpool first call Rugby and the future 110 mph Grand Central Service to Blackpool at xx36 first call Milton Keynes.

This is impressive by anyone's standard, more services are run in the peak hours. I believe @Bald Rick and @ChiefPlanner have referred to the WCML timetable south of Rugby as a thing of beauty and I can see why (I look forward to reading more about it in their memoires!)

Anyone doubting the need for HS2 would do well to look at this and explain exactly how you would fit more trains onto the fast lines out of Euston.

Yep, it is a thing of beauty. For one reason or another I have spent lot of time on the WCML recently, with a few trips to and from the North West. The other week I was on an up Glasgow, checked on RTT around Weaver Jn that the preceding Manchester (fast from Crewe), Liverpool (fast from Stafford), Blackpool (fast from Rugby) and Shrewsbury (calling Watford) were all on time and knowing that around a hour later they would all take their slots perfectly on 3 minute headways approaching Euston.... then seeing it all happen on OTT ... it is a work of art.
 

The Planner

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Yep, it is a thing of beauty. For one reason or another I have spent lot of time on the WCML recently, with a few trips to and from the North West. The other week I was on an up Glasgow, checked on RTT around Weaver Jn that the preceding Manchester (fast from Crewe), Liverpool (fast from Stafford), Blackpool (fast from Rugby) and Shrewsbury (calling Watford) were all on time and knowing that around a hour later they would all take their slots perfectly on 3 minute headways approaching Euston.... then seeing it all happen on OTT ... it is a work of art.
Good God, I'm not showing that to the main protagonist! :lol:
 
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