1B96 1057 Cardiff Central - Fishguard Harbour!!!!

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redthunder

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Well today (4th May) I was happily on this service on 150237 which according to National Rail Enquiries (and booking engines like Trainline, Redspottedhanky etc) calls at :

Llanelli, Whitland, Clarbeston Road then terminating at Fishguard Harbour

Ref : http://traintimes.im/rail-service/C36008/2012/05/08/

However

According to Arriva Trains Wales Timetable Book 3

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Timetables/

If you have a look at Page 27 which is where this exact same service is, it calls at

Llanelli, Whitland then terminating at Fishguard Harbour!!!!!!!
NOT CALLING AT CLARBESTON ROAD

Yet all the sites are selling Advances for this service from Cardiff to Clarbeston Road at £8.00 which according to Arriva Trains Wales (Timetable books and Diagrams etc) doesnt exist!!!!!!

Who is right or wrong???? Is it National Rail or Arriva Trains Wales?????
 
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GadgetMan

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Did you travel on that train to its final destination, if so did it stop at Clarbeston Road? If it did then National Rail are correct. If it didn't then it would be fair to assume Arriva are correct.
 

IanD

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This stop was incorrectly shown in the NRT for ages. However, as it was shown as a request stop, the train not stopping there would not prove that NRT/NRE etc.. were wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oops. New online NRT published yesterday and table 128 one again shows this service as stopping non-request at Clarbeston Road.
 

WelshBluebird

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What would your rights be if you were booked on this service to alight at Clarbeston Road?
Surely a passenger is not expected to check multiple versions of the timetable?
 

IanD

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I would think if you held an advance ticket (or any ticket with a printed itinerary) then they would either have to stop the train especially for you (it's crawled through the station each time I've been on it so not sure why it doesn't stop anyway!) or tell you to get off at the stop before and await the next train or get off at Fishguard and Goodwick and await the next train back - you should then get some sort of refund as you'd be 1 hour late if you changed at Whitland or 7 hours and 22 minutes late if you changed at F&G as unfortunately, the return boat train doesn't stop at Clarbeston Road either! Or they might put you in a taxi.
 
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Pacerpilot

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It does NOT call at Clarbeston Road. Its not booked to, nor is diagrammed to on the traincrews diagrams. Its diagrammed to stop only to collect the NSTR token from the signal box, which, for those who do not know the area, is some distance from the Station itself.
The night boat train is however, booked to call at Clarbeston Rd, by request only.
Ive worked that service more times than I care to remember, and its diagrammed for crew as Clarbeston Rd: 12N59 (meaning collect token)
The night train is diagrammed as Clarbeston Rd: 00R59, showing its a request stop.
 

redthunder

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I personally went to Fishguard for route exploration but the guy that was sat next to me had an advance for that train to Clarbeston Road, the conductor agreed to stop at Clarbeston Road for him, it probably would have been a full refund as well otherwise. Just hope National Rail & Arriva Trains Wales sort this out and the details of both parties match up, I know Clarbeston Road isn't a well used station, but there will be incidents like that one again if this issue isn't resolved

By the way you can still get an advance (checked just now) at £8.00 (£5.30 railcard) on that 1057 to "Clarbeston Road" on Tuesday showing as a direct service. Amazing considering it doesn't even "STOP" there.
 

sonic2009

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According to National Rail & Open Train Times this train does stop at Clarbeston Road.

ATW will even offer me a ticket on their own website.
 

sonic2009

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Attached picture from website.
 

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Pacerpilot

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I personally went to Fishguard for route exploration but the guy that was sat next to me had an advance for that train to Clarbeston Road, the conductor agreed to stop at Clarbeston Road for him, it probably would have been a full refund as well otherwise. Just hope National Rail & Arriva Trains Wales sort this out and the details of both parties match up, I know Clarbeston Road isn't a well used station, but there will be incidents like that one again if this issue isn't resolved

By the way you can still get an advance (checked just now) at £8.00 (£5.30 railcard) on that 1057 to "Clarbeston Road" on Tuesday showing as a direct service. Amazing considering it doesn't even "STOP" there.

I fully agree, its a daft anomaly. If however, you find yourself in the situation again, let the guard know (after Llanelli, preferably) as the Carmarthen crews are fantastic and will help you out. We are (or were in my case) a friendly bunch at that depot, and will try our best to accommodate our passengers as best we can.
 

krus_aragon

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I personally went to Fishguard for route exploration but the guy that was sat next to me had an advance for that train to Clarbeston Road, the conductor agreed to stop at Clarbeston Road for him, it probably would have been a full refund as well otherwise.

I had a similar experience when I went down to Fishguard a year or two ago: the train stopped at Clarbeston to pick up a passenger who'd changed trains there to wait the boat train. Our train was radioed to call there for her.
 

Rhydgaled

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The East Coast journey planner somtimes seems to show it calling at Clarbeston Road, but in my experience most of the time East Coast says it doesn't call.

It always has to stop at the signal box anyway, couldn't they move that (or at least token exchange facilities) to the station platform? The Milford Haven services don't seem to need to stop at the signal box for a token though, even though that line is single track too.
 

louis97

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The Milford Haven services don't seem to need to stop at the signal box for a token though, even though that line is single track too.

The Milford Haven branch is track circuited due to the passing point at Haverfordwest and therefore does not require a token.
 

Rhydgaled

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The Milford Haven branch is track circuited due to the passing point at Haverfordwest and therefore does not require a token.
Just because a single track line has a passing loop doesn't mean it can't be token operated. Pembroke Dock branch has a loop at Tenby yet has tokens, even the Fishguard branch has a sort-of loop (though I think the system is such that a train can't enter either end of the branch until the other is parked in the loop, so it isn't any good for passenger trains).
 

louis97

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Just because a single track line has a passing loop doesn't mean it can't be token operated. Pembroke Dock branch has a loop at Tenby yet has tokens, even the Fishguard branch has a sort-of loop (though I think the system is such that a train can't enter either end of the branch until the other is parked in the loop, so it isn't any good for passenger trains).

I am fully aware of this, however on this occasion the line is fully track circuited and signalled down till Milford Haven station and therefore no token is required.

The Fishguard and Pembroke Dock branch both do not feature track circuit throughout so therefore stop boards are used instead of colour light signals, therefore these lines have tokens.

You will only be able to allow a another train onto the Fishguard branch when the token already released has been returned to the token instrument at Fishguard station. (If there is one)
 

Eire Sprinter

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There is some sort of device at the Clarbeston Road end of Fishguard Harbour platform.

It's been my experience that after departing (from midways along the platform adjacent to the ferry terminal) the train will momentarily pause at this device near the end of the platform prior to proceeding.

I believe the driver has to press something or the like (offhand the device if memory serves me correctly is called a "plunger").

Am no signalling expert but perhaps this may be of interest.
 

Pacerpilot

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Thats the plunger to operate the AOCL crossing. But there is a token instrument at Fishguard Harbour.
 

Rhydgaled

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You will only be able to allow a another train onto the Fishguard branch when the token already released has been returned to the token instrument at Fishguard station. (If there is one)
I have been told (on this fourm I beleive) that there is a token instrument at the loop at Trecwn, not sure about the harbour.

EDIT: Thanks Pacerpilot for confirming that there is indeed a token instrument at Fishguard Harbour.
 

Pacerpilot

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I have been told (on this fourm I beleive) that there is a token instrument at the loop at Trecwn, not sure about the harbour.

EDIT: Thanks Pacerpilot for confirming that there is indeed a token instrument at Fishguard Harbour.

Ive no idea where it is though...only what I was told when I learned the branch.
 

louis97

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I have been told (on this fourm I beleive) that there is a token instrument at the loop at Trecwn, not sure about the harbour.

EDIT: Thanks Pacerpilot for confirming that there is indeed a token instrument at Fishguard Harbour.

There may well be a token instument at the Loop at Trecwn, i'd imagine it allow a train to be stabled in the loop. However it would not be possible to allow 2 moving trains on the branch at once, as the tokens are for the whole line, and not to/from the loop.
 

34D

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There may well be a token instument at the Loop at Trecwn, i'd imagine it allow a train to be stabled in the loop. However it would not be possible to allow 2 moving trains on the branch at once, as the tokens are for the whole line, and not to/from the loop.

Could it be one that unscrews in the middle - one half being stamped for A to B and the other half for B to C?

Bank holiday mondays booked/actual times (don't infer anything from the different arrival and departure times - could be that it passed at 12:58.30 hence arrival rounded down and departure rounded up)

1B96* C36008* AW1051* 07/05/2012 1057
Cardiff Central [CDF] to Fishguard Harbour [FGH]
Operator: Arriva Trains Wales.
Cardiff Central[CDF]
Dep : 1057 Act: 1058 Plat: 3A Late: 1
Pontyclun[PYC]
Pass : 1108 Act: 1109 Late: 1
Bridgend[BGN]
Pass : 1118 Act: 1117 Late: -1
STORMY
Pass : 1122 Act: No log
MRGMMJN
Pass : 1125 Act: 1124 Late: -1
Port Talbot Parkway[PTA]
Pass : 1130 Act: 1127 Late: -3
CTSARTJ
Pass : 1133 Act: No log
DYNEVRJ
Pass : 1135 Act: No log
FELNFRN
Pass : 1139 Act: No log
MORLASJ
Pass : 1151 Act: No log
LLDELOJ
Pass : 1159 Act: No log
Llanelli[LLE]
Arr : 1201 Act: 1200
Dep : 1203 Act: 1202 Plat: 1 Late: -1
Pembrey & Burry Port[PBY]
Pass : 1209 Act: No log
Kidwelly[KWL]
Pass : 1214 Act: No log
Ferryside[FYS]
Pass : 1222 Act: No log
CMTHNJ
Pass : 1231 Act: 1224 Late: -7
Whitland[WTL]
Arr : 1245 Act: 1237
Dep : 1245 Act: 1245 Plat: 2 Late: On time
Clarbeston Road[CLR]
Arr : 1258 Act: 1258
Dep : 1259 Act: 1259 Plat: 2 Late: On time
Fishguard Harbour[FGH]
Arr : 1326 Act: 1319 Plat: 1 Late: -7

Could someone (ideally someone with an address in the locale) email ATW and ask when they will fix it one way or the other.
 

Rhydgaled

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There may well be a token instument at the Loop at Trecwn, i'd imagine it allow a train to be stabled in the loop. However it would not be possible to allow 2 moving trains on the branch at once, as the tokens are for the whole line, and not to/from the loop.

As I understood what I was told, a train could be moving anywhere on the branch as long as the other was inside Trecwn or Fishguard Harbour. So yes, as you said only one train moving (although one could be running up into the former RNAD at Trecwn, and there might be a little bit of scope for a train to move within the confines of the harbour).
 

Eire Sprinter

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Thanks Pacerpilot for explaining the purpose of the "plunger". Knowing this sort of info makes journeys more interesting. I assume the AOCL is automatically activated (by track circuits perhaps) for a train approaching the Harbour.

Perhaps the token instrument is part of the ground frame.

Have been looking at the Track Maps Railway Track Diagrams for the Harbour and it has the following info:

Harbour Stn. Ground Frame is located at 288.10 which is fractionally on the Clarbeston Rd. side of the AOCL (situated at 288.11).

The station per se is at 288.18.

There is a "North Ground Frame" at 288.27, near/past the other end of the platform. The points here are apparently padlocked.

The line continues to 288.36 which is designated as "End of main line".

It is in situ but classified out of use to the end of the North Breakwater (289.06).

From 287.52 the line has Engineer's Line Reference "FSH" meaning Fishguard Harbour Lines (Stena UK).

The publication is dated 2005. I assume that there haven't been any/any significant changes since though stand to correction on this.

At Letterston Jct there is an east and west ground frame controlling the loop. These are at 281.47 and 283.70 respectively. Never realised the loop was that long...Heading towards Clarbeston Rd. the Trecwn branch curves off to the left from the loop. (A further ground frame or similar with points padlocked).
 

Rhydgaled

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It is in situ but classified out of use to the end of the North Breakwater (289.06).
It had better be classified out of use! It was in situ when I went and had a nose a year or two back, but some of it was buried-in-gravel/concreted-in (might have been tarmac, can't remember).
 

Eire Sprinter

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From the ferry I've seen a stretch of it discernible clearly through the tarmac and possibly useable (the other side of the station). Plus - interestingly - a line coming from it towards the ship's berth (I think the latter line couldn't be used though) and probably is the remains of one of the original lines from when the station and track layout were more extensive.
 
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