1S69 Failure Abington 9th September 2024

[uww11x]

Avanti 1S69 failure ongoing at Abington this evening. Queue of trains trapped in the rear. These 390s seem to be dropping like flies these days

 

[aaronspence]

Its opened up some questions I have.

Its taken 4 hours to begin to evacuate onto the train that was behind 1S69, why did that decision take so long to make?

Also since the train behind it was able to I assume wrong line work to get side by side 1S69, Why couldnt they have done this to release the trains behind that were stuck? It seems a total lack of attempt at anything.

 

[AndrewE]

9S80 1440 London Euston to Edinburgh currently running 3 1/4 hrs late!​

(https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C22083/2024-09-09/detailed) At least it is moving now!
Seems a very inept response to a problem... not even a "sunday" service or staffing to have to cope with - although on the WCML Sundays are as busy/intensive as any other day.

 

[Horizon22]

Its opened up some questions I have.

Its taken 4 hours to begin to evacuate onto the train that was behind 1S69, why did that decision take so long to make?

Also since the train behind it was able to I assume wrong line work to get side by side 1S69, Why couldnt they have done this to release the trains behind that were stuck? It seems a total lack of attempt at anything.

The "decision" probably didn't take that long but getting all the resources to manage a controlled evacuation in time (even if train-to-train) undoubtedly took longer.

 

[800001]

Its opened up some questions I have.

Its taken 4 hours to begin to evacuate onto the train that was behind 1S69, why did that decision take so long to make?

Also since the train behind it was able to I assume wrong line work to get side by side 1S69, Why couldnt they have done this to release the trains behind that were stuck? It seems a total lack of attempt at anything.

Driver of 1S69 attempting to rectify faults this took about an hour before declared failure, then to implement single line working needs staff to site to hand signal in relevant areas.
When decision to evacuate taken also need staff on site to assist they need to travel to site, I believe BTP were also required to assist.

9S70 rescue train then suffered a loss of power.

Lots of things going on in the background, so far from a ‘total lack of attempt at anything’!

 

[D1537]

1S71 (1504 Manchester-Glasgow) has been at Lockerbie for well over 4 hours now.

Nothing else has got past Carlisle yet. At one point (9S97) they were holding trains as far back as Wigan.

If there's an issue with 9S70 then I suspect little will go north tonight. Most have been cancelled already (1S78 is at Carlisle but is already well over 3 hours down and 9S80 is behind it).

Edit: well at least 9S70 and 1S71 are moving, so hopefully the remaining northbound trains should be OK (I presume the non-cancelled ones are those with Scottish crew).

 

[aaronspence]

Driver of 1S69 attempting to rectify faults this took about an hour before declared failure, then to implement single line working needs staff to site to hand signal in relevant areas.
When decision to evacuate taken also need staff on site to assist they need to travel to site, I believe BTP were also required to assist.

9S70 rescue train then suffered a loss of power.

Lots of things going on in the background, so far from a ‘total lack of attempt at anything’! But, it’s easy to be an armchair expert without any facts.

Fair play that does all sound reasonable! Was purely me being inquisitive rather than assuming I know how it all works.

 

[Trainguy34]

9S70 looks to be on the move according to Traksy, likely around 4.5 hours late!

EDIT: From a look at RTT, it's probably a good job I didn't go to Scotland today considering the ECML was shut for about 3 hours, only for the WCML to shut an hour later!

 

[D1537]

9S70 (which is an Edinburgh train) is now going to Glasgow, which I'm sure is making the original Edinburgh passengers happy. On the other hand, the alternative was taking 1S69's Glasgow passengers to Edinburgh I suppose...

I note nothing has left Carlisle yet despite trains being on the move (1S78 is at Carlisle, 9S80 has been at Penrith for the last 40 minutes as there are no platforms at Carlisle, 1S82 ditto at Oxenholme, 1S90 at Lancaster etc.) so that well may be it for the night.

 

[cadder toad]

Traksy shows IS78 1530 ex Euston currently passing Kingmoor 4 hours + late

 

[Peter0124]

I think the train that failed (1S69 13:30 EUS-GLC) was fouling the points otherwise they could've diverted stuff around it through the loop no?

1S98 (19:30 EUS-GLC, the last one) been held at Wigan for the last 1hr 30m. Though should be going on the move soon. Looking like a 2am Glasgow arrival if not later.

 

[londonmidland]

I'm not sure if Open Train Times Maps are reporting things correctly but why does it currently show 4S57 directly in front of 1S69, not moving anywhere? Further down the line, 4S44 is also directly in front of 1Z99?

 

[Peter0124]

I'm not sure if Open Train Times Maps are reporting things correctly but why does it currently show 4S57 directly in front of 1S69, not moving anywhere? Further down the line, 4S44 is also directly in front of 1Z99?

4S57 is currently using the Single Line Working so I think they've put the headcode infront so it's ready for when it crosses back over.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Looks like trains seem to be moving forward extremely slowly, likely awaiting events with 1S69. 9S80 (1440 Euston to Edinburgh) is still sat at Carlisle, almost 5 hours late (original departure 1951). 1S78 (1530 Euston to Glasgow) is also bordering on 5 hours late while sat at Lockerbie, with numerous other trains still at Penrith, Lancaster and Preston with 1S98 (1930 Euston to Glasgow) currently sat at Wigan North Western.

What hasn’t helped is that several services south of Lancaster are now not stopping at Oxenholme due to the station being closed.

17:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central due 22:08 will no longer call at Oxenholme Lake District.
It has been delayed at Preston and is now 116 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.

19:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central due 00:08 will no longer call at Oxenholme Lake District but will call additionally at Lockerbie and Motherwell.
It has been delayed between Rugby and Stafford and is now 33 minutes late.
This is due to a broken down train.

Definitely feel for the crew and station staff tonight, it can’t be easy for any of them or the passengers.

EDIT: Goes from bad to worse. A quick look at RealTimeTrains and X shows that 1S82 (16:30 from Euston to Glasgow) has terminated at Penrith. https://x.com/uncle__drew11/status/1833258062984978782?s=46&t=hlmZLkStZWVT77rMIl6SeQ

Hi I have a qusetion regarding the train arriving to glasgow 21:05 we are still stuck at oxenholme is there any updates on the arrival time

We're sorry but we have been advised that this service will be terminating at Penrith, and will no longer call at Carlisle and Glasgow Central stations. Please speak with the station team for assistance with your onward journey. Apologies for the inconvenience caused. - Sama

1S90 (1730 Euston to Glasgow) has terminated at Lancaster: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C31769/2024-09-09/detailed

This service was cancelled between Lancaster and Glasgow Central due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD).

9S93 (1640 Euston to Edinburgh) and 9S97 (1740 Euston to Glasgow) have both been terminated at Preston, and it looks like 1S98 (1930 Euston to Glasgow) may be the only train heading the full way to Scotland. It will definitely be a task getting all these trainloads full of people up to Scotland (and intermediate stations).

Definitely not a good night for all involved.

 

[GordonT]

Looks like trains seem to be moving forward extremely slowly, likely awaiting events with 1S69. 9S80 (1440 Euston to Edinburgh) is still sat at Carlisle, almost 5 hours late (original departure 1951). 1S78 (1530 Euston to Glasgow) is also bordering on 5 hours late while sat at Lockerbie, with numerous other trains still at Penrith, Lancaster and Preston with 1S98 (1930 Euston to Glasgow) currently sat at Wigan North Western.
What hasn’t helped is that several services south of Lancaster are now not stopping at Oxenholme due to the station being closed.
Definitely feel for the crew and station staff tonight, it can’t be easy for any of them or the passengers.

With delays of this magnitude it looks as if the prospect of some of these trains not going anywhere due to drivers being out of hours must be a possibility. The options for passengers are unlikely to be great. The sleepers similarly seem destined to be heavily disrupted but at least their pax have a modicum of comfort.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like a very rough night. One thing that struck me yet again and something I have complained about to Avanti and indeed others not toc related but political etc. Is this rather frustrating habit they seem to have at Avanti control for? I assume it is them that makes the decision of rerouting Edinburgh trains to Glasgow Central when there's even the Vegas width of the brown stuff in the air. If they don't want to serve Edinburgh anymore then ask the DFT to find someone else to run services to Edinburgh with passengers. Transferring it Carlisle or similar but don't just leave people out in the cold the moment something goes wrong

 

[Scotrail314209]

Looks like things may be picking up, 1S90 is now on the move, 311L.

Realtime Trains | 1S90 1730 London Euston to Glasgow Central | 09/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1S90 1730 departure from London Euston to Glasgow Central on 09/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Estimated arrival into Glasgow is 0316. Surely this must be an indication that the line is due to reopen soon?

 

[Chris Hamilton]

It’s interesting that northbound Highland Sleeper (1S25, ex Euston at 2115) is actually running ahead of 1S98, an Avanti service to Glasgow which departed Euston at 1930. All sat in the big ol traffic jam between Shap and Penrith.

Some of the services which have passed me at Bodsbury (As S&T, I’m here to reset the crossing sequence after each wrong direction train, just one of the many tasks and people that has to be organised to recover some kind of service), such as 1S78 1530 Euston to Glasgow (running 428 mins down) have standing passengers. Pretty grim, and a 100% refund is probably very little comfort. You don’t expect to get on an afternoon InterCity that morphs into a sleeper en route.

 

[b0b]

1S90 just picked up another nearly hour delay, what a rough one for those passengers

 

[Chris Hamilton]

The failed unit, now 5Z57 being hauled by 57308, has been dragged clear of 334pts, meaning trains can now be sent through the Down Passenger Loop to get around it, with 9S80 being the first to use it, running 465mins late as it passed me at Bodsbury - at line speed on the Down!*

*Which means I can stand down and go find a cup of tea somewhere.

 

[MadCommuter]

It’s interesting that northbound Highland Sleeper (1S25, ex Euston at 2115) is actually running ahead of 1S98, an Avanti service to Glasgow which departed Euston at 1930. All sat in the big ol traffic jam between Shap and Penrith.

Some of the services which have passed me at Bodsbury (As S&T, I’m here to reset the crossing sequence after each wrong direction train, just one of the many tasks and people that has to be organised to recover some kind of service), such as 1S78 1530 Euston to Glasgow (running 428 mins down) have standing passengers. Pretty grim, and a 100% refund is probably very little comfort. You don’t expect to get on an afternoon InterCity that morphs into a sleeper en route.

Go on you for helping out getting passengers to where they want to be.

I'm quite surprised at how much staff is needed to support wrong line working. Isn't it possible to automate the system so it is quicker to implement?

The delays mentioned on Twitter are possibly the worst I've ever seen. Someone left Euston at 4.30pm and has arrived in Glasgow at 6.30 am.

The fall out continues with cancellations from Glasgow this morning. Also lots of accessible toilets out of order - overuse from last night?

 

[Chris Hamilton]

Go on you for helping out getting passengers to where they want to be.

I'm quite surprised at how much staff is needed to support wrong line working. Isn't it possible to automate the system so it is quicker to implement?

The delays mentioned on Twitter are possibly the worst I've ever seen. Someone left Euston at 4.30pm and has arrived in Glasgow at 6.30 am.

The fall out continues with cancellations from Glasgow this morning. Also lots of accessible toilets out of order - overuse from last night?

Some lines are equipped for simplified Bi Directional working, which allows a very basic “wrong direction” service to operate, mostly automatically. The upper end of the WCML isn’t, as our signalling dates from 1972. In fact, the points that allow crossover movements to happen were only really changed from mechanical ground frames to electrical operation in the last 10-15 years, and for the movement of them to happen remotely instead of from a panel at site in the last 5 or so.

So, it does require less staff now, than it did say, 10 years ago, but it remains a manual operation on my patch of the woods. I was only needed because Bodsbury LC (user worked with miniature warning lights) has no ability to reset its operating sequence during wrong direction movements, and would only reset when used by a train in the correct direction. Not a show stopper for the railway, but a major inconvenience for the folks that live on the wrong side of it. It also helps to have a staff member there as, although approached in the wrong direction at extreme caution, it will give no warning of an approaching wrong direction train until said train is only a couple of metres away.

I’m just resetting a bit of circuitry, and mostly sat in a van, in the dark listening to the radio. The real heroes last night would be the on train staff. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in their shoes.

 

[Freightmaster]

The failed unit, now 5Z57 being hauled by 57308, has been dragged clear of 334pts, meaning trains can now be sent through the Down Passenger Loop to get around it, with 9S80 being the first to use it, running 465mins late as it passed me at Bodsbury - at line speed on the Down!

The overriding question to me is why it took almost ten hours to shunt the stricken train
out of the way - surely the availability/location of WCML 'Thunderbird' locos has to be called
into question after this - is it purely down to cost cutting??



MARK

 

[Falcon1200]

Its taken 4 hours to begin to evacuate onto the train that was behind 1S69, why did that decision take so long to make?

Also since the train behind it was able to I assume wrong line work to get side by side 1S69, Why couldnt they have done this to release the trains behind that were stuck? It seems a total lack of attempt at anything.

Was the train-to-train transfer carried out before any other trains were passed through Single Line Working (SLW), or after?

Seems a very inept response to a problem... not even a "sunday" service or staffing to have to cope with - although on the WCML Sundays are as busy/intensive as any other day.

Between 1998 and 2008 I was one of the Railtrack/Network Rail Controllers whose area included the WCML in Scotland. As @Chris Hamilton explains well the route is (still, and this is the real scandal and ineptitude) not equipped with bi-directional signalling, meaning that multiple staff have to be mobilised to introduce SLW, and depending on the section involved this can be as many as four. Given the remoteness of the area it often takes some time to get these staff on site, some they are coming from the Motherwell or Glasgow areas. Also, Abington is a location with crossovers so serves as the start or end point of a SLW section, however if as suggested above the failed train was blocking those points the SLW would become a double length section.

The upper end of the WCML isn’t, as our signalling dates from 1972.

Indeed, and if I had a pound for every incident in which full WCML bi-di signalling would have made a massive difference to the delays incurred I would be richer than Elon Musk.....

The real heroes last night would be the on train staff.

Agree absolutely!

 

[sandpiper]

Before privatization, electric trains would have had a diesel attached and dragged via Kilmarnock , traincrews would have the the required route knowledge and delays would have been a fraction of what the farce was last night and passengers wouldn't have been treated so shabbily as they were.

Todays railway is so fragmented and badly run now that route and traction knowledge is shrinking and diversionary route knowledge is abandoned, spare traction for failed trains is usually difficult to acquire or many hours away and no two consecutive trains have compatible couplers that can be used to push a defective train out of the way either.

Stabling and platform space at the major stations on route, (eg, Preston and Carlisle), is minimal, it only takes three trains at Carlisle to block all the through platforms and Preston soon fills up too with other platforms needing being used for other local services.

It doesn't take long when a situation occurs for the railway to quickly descend into total chaos and on such a busy and intensive route as the WCML even a simple train breakdown means that the passengers are in for a torrid and usually ridiculously long delays.
Recently Manchester Victoria had three of the four through platforms blocked by TPEx trains for hours a few days ago when the aggregate train derailed leaving only one through platform available.

The false economy of rationalization and money saving is thrown into sharp relief when things go pear-shaped - which seems to be almost daily these days - just wait until the winter storms start and the trees, (not just the leaves), start falling across the tracks! It will make last nights debacle seem like a picnic............

Passengers are just an after-thought these days!

 

[MadCommuter]

Some lines are equipped for simplified Bi Directional working, which allows a very basic “wrong direction” service to operate, mostly automatically. The upper end of the WCML isn’t, as our signalling dates from 1972. In fact, the points that allow crossover movements to happen were only really changed from mechanical ground frames to electrical operation in the last 10-15 years, and for the movement of them to happen remotely instead of from a panel at site in the last 5 or so.

So, it does require less staff now, than it did say, 10 years ago, but it remains a manual operation on my patch of the woods. I was only needed because Bodsbury LC (user worked with miniature warning lights) has no ability to reset its operating sequence during wrong direction movements, and would only reset when used by a train in the correct direction. Not a show stopper for the railway, but a major inconvenience for the folks that live on the wrong side of it. It also helps to have a staff member there as, although approached in the wrong direction at extreme caution, it will give no warning of an approaching wrong direction train until said train is only a couple of metres away.

I’m just resetting a bit of circuitry, and mostly sat in a van, in the dark listening to the radio. The real heroes last night would be the on train staff. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in their shoes.

This - always interesting to understand the challenges. I'm amazed it hasn't been upgraded to be more automated. Hopefully it will be considered soon. (I often see £15m for new stations to be built and I'm sure this money could be better spent - funding sources I'm sure!)

 

[Taunton]

I remember a breakdown at exactly this point in the 1970s, on the north side of the climb to Beattock.

The pair of Class 20 Beattock bankers came down and hauled it up to the summit loop, where a replacement electric loco was attached. Time loss - about an hour.

That was in the times when the railway had resources (and initiative, and indeed procedures) to do this sort of thing, so the lack of bi-di working did not show up as a major issue What has happened nowadays is that that the resources were let go without thought that, sometimes, they were actually doing something valuable and useful.

Regarding "Simplified" (euphemism for costs saved) bi-di, that is something which as I understand it only allows one train at a time along the wrong line section. This always seemed counter-productive, for it's at times like this that you really need the ability to flight trains along, a number one way, a number the other.

 

[Bikeman78]

With delays of this magnitude it looks as if the prospect of some of these trains not going anywhere due to drivers being out of hours must be a possibility.

What happens in this situation? For example, Glasgow crew delayed by five or six hours. Do they work the train through to Glasgow? It would be possible to terminate some trains at Carlisle but you would quickly run out of platforms.

 

[185143]

Go on you for helping out getting passengers to where they want to be.

I'm quite surprised at how much staff is needed to support wrong line working. Isn't it possible to automate the system so it is quicker to implement?

The delays mentioned on Twitter are possibly the worst I've ever seen. Someone left Euston at 4.30pm and has arrived in Glasgow at 6.30 am.

The fall out continues with cancellations from Glasgow this morning. Also lots of accessible toilets out of order - overuse from last night?

It was on the Sleeper obviously, but myself and another forum member have left Euston at 21:15 and only reached Edinburgh literally a few minutes shy of 12 hours later.

And yes. I was in the seats, spending a fair bit of time swearing at myself for not changing out for a room!

 

[Spartacus]

I remember a breakdown at exactly this point in the 1970s, on the north side of the climb to Beattock.

The pair of Class 20 Beattock bankers came down and hauled it up to the summit loop, where a replacement electric loco was attached. Time loss - about an hour.

That was in the times when the railway had resources (and initiative, and indeed procedures) to do this sort of thing, so the lack of bi-di working did not show up as a major issue What has happened nowadays is that that the resources were let go without thought that, sometimes, they were actually doing something valuable and useful.

Regarding "Simplified" (euphemism for costs saved) bi-di, that is something which as I understand it only allows one train at a time along the wrong line section. This always seemed counter-productive, for it's at times like this that you really need the ability to flight trains along, a number one way, a number the other.

You can't be keeping a banker up there, paying for staff, fuel, maintenance, etc, with nothing to do, for heaven knows how long as there's no trains that need banking, just in case something fails though.