1st Class on the Paris Metro

[W-on-Sea]

I just heard a radio programme (not at all transport-related) that trains on the Paris Metro (or at least certain lines thereof) included a section classified as first class, until as recently as 1981. (Googling brings up the legislation approved in that year that abolished this, so this is clearly correct. Hmm, the year that France had its first Socialist President, too....). And also that elderly and disabled people with 2nd class tickets were allowed to use 1st class carriages during the rush hours or when the 2nd class carriages were crowded.


Does anyone know anything more about the 1st class metro carriages? Such as, how luxurious were they, what was special about them? (I suppose the question of how on earth it was ensured that only people entitled to use the carriages used them in another matter). Some photos would be most appreciated too - some searches on Google Images and Flickr haven't turned up anything.

 

[Oscar]

From a response to a question put to the French upper house in 1991 on the removal of First Class:

Elle est justifiée par le faible intérêt de l'existence de la 1re classe au regard des charges qu'elle engendrait pour la R.A.T.P. du fait des déprédations dont elle était spécifiquement l'objet et des importants moyens de contrôle nécessaire pour en limiter l'accès aux seuls voyageurs disposant du titre de transport correspondant. Elle permettra de redéployer les effectifs ainsi libérés pour réprimer plus efficacement la fraude véritable.

This [removal of First Class] is justified by the limited attractiveness of having First Class in relation to the costs which the R.A.T.P. is said to incur because of unauthorised use specifically of First Class and the significant cost of the necessary checks to limit access to passengers with the appropriate ticket. This will release personnel and allow them to be redeployed to more efficiently stop real fraud.

 

[spacehopper]

Was this Mary Beard on Radio 4? Saying how she would sit in first class on standard ticket and look forward to an arguement with FCC RPI?

 

[W-on-Sea]

Yes, Spacehopper, that was the one. Obviously aspiring to follow in Cherie Blair's footsteps....

 

[Oscar]

Was this Mary Beard on Radio 4? Saying how she would sit in first class on standard ticket and look forward to an arguement with FCC RPI?

I imagine so - the BBC article included a section on the 21st century's love of locking people up based on the "£1000 fine or 3 months in prison" notice, even though I understand such a prison sentence is only used in extreme cases in contrast to Germany where repeat ticketing offenders are regularly given similar prison sentences.

I believe the year in which the RATP First Class was removed was 1991.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The first class on the Paris Metro ( and RER ) was more or less identical to second class except that you had a greater chance of finding a seat.

Sounds familiar?!

 

[Dstock7080]

First Class carriages were identified by a different external colour:
Sprague Stock:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_q_WGHXnqn-Q/TPcqGW3f8xI/AAAAAAAABEU/csufV0ImxAA/s1600/ParisSpragueSet1966.jpg
interior of Sprague Stock first Class:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2165/2524472884_3148901335_z.jpg
interior of Sprague Stock second Class:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meteorry/2523690889/in/photostream/

 

[Golghar]

I understand such a prison sentence is only used in extreme cases in contrast to Germany where repeat ticketing offenders are regularly given similar prison sentences.

In Germany repeated ticket offenders are initally banned from using public transportation in the region. If nabbed again (and they won't be if they subsequently travel with a ticket) they can be (and often are) prosecuted for trespass. Ticketless travelling as such isn't a criminal offence in Germany: that's why the fine isn't called that but something that translates as "enhanced fare".

The city of Bremen even offers a concessional ticket for repeat offenders. I haven't been able to find a link in English but here is one in German. The monthly ticket costs 20 Euros.

 

[Oscar]

In Germany repeated ticket offenders are initally banned from using public transportation in the region. If nabbed again (and they won't be if they subsequently travel with a ticket) they can be (and often are) prosecuted for trespass. Ticketless travelling as such isn't a criminal offence in Germany: that's why the fine isn't called that but something that translates as "enhanced fare".

The phrase "erhöhtes Beförderungsentgelt" reminds me very much of the phrase "Penalty Fare" and I believe that the application is broadly similar although of course Penalty Fares are targeted at those who make an honest mistake whereas the German equivalent is targeted at fare evaders. The Bremen monthly ticket idea is interesting - I recently read an article about the cost of prison sentences and suggestions for offering more affordable tickets for poorer members of society in the Nürnberg area to try to limit the number of people jailed.

 

[185]

Yes, Spacehopper, that was the one. Obviously aspiring to follow in Cherie Blair's footsteps....

Cherie Blair forgot her Thameslink season ticket on her first day in a new job. The RPI correctly issued a penalty fare which she accepted and politely apologised for.

Unlike the real crook caught in First Class, George Osbourne who openly tried through his aide to scrounge an upgrade to two X £205 fares on West Coast infront of other passengers.

As much as Cherie Blair wasn't that popular, at least she wasn't a fare dodger.

 

[jon0844]

How was he caught when the aide went to find the guard, and upgrades are allowed on Virgin trains when they're not on FCC (DOO) services, for obvious reasons.

Okay, George could have asked nicely for a free upgrade (like any one of us could) but on FCC, if there had been no RPI then the person would neither buy a ticket or receive permission.

 

[Oswyntail]

Cherie Blair forgot her Thameslink season ticket on her first day in a new job. The RPI correctly issued a penalty fare which she accepted and politely apologised for.

Unlike the real crook caught in First Class, George Osbourne who openly tried through his aide to scrounge an upgrade to two X £205 fares on West Coast infront of other passengers.

As much as Cherie Blair wasn't that popular, at least she wasn't a fare dodger.

And so history gradually gets rewritten:roll:

 

[Bungle73]

Unlike the real crook caught in First Class, George Osbourne who openly tried through his aide to scrounge an upgrade to two X £205 fares on West Coast infront of other passengers.

That's not what happened at all.

A Virgin Trains spokesman said that the Chancellor's aide found the train manager as soon as the train left Wilmslow station near Manchester "to explain the situation and arrange to pay for an upgrade".

They added: "It was agreed that the Chancellor would remain in first class and an amount of £189.50 was paid by the aide to cover the upgrade for Mr Osborne and his PA

"The situation was dealt with amicably between the train manager and George Osborne's aide.

"At no time was there a disagreement or a refusal to pay for the upgrade. Nor was there any discussion between the train manager and Mr Osborne."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20008342

 

[CC 72100]

From a response to a question put to the French upper house in 1991 on the removal of First Class:

Must admit I found it quite intriguing the thought of First class on the Underground. Just seems such a strange concept - it is therefore that RATP (Parisian equivalent of Tfl) were the only organisation to have this, as recognized in the link.

My translation below: NB: I don't just sit at home randomly translating French - my degree is 30 credits French and this served as interesting practice for a formative translation in my seminar tomorrow

Following the great victory achieved by the abolitions after 33 years of fighting for the removal/declassification of 1st class on the Parisian underground system, Mr Pierre-Christian Tattinger asked the Minister of facilities, accommodation, transport and of space, what he would now do for elderly and disabled people who used to take refuge in these coaches during rush hour?

Answer: The removal of first class ends a situation unequaled in the rest of the world – RATP was up until now the only organisation to offer two classes of travel on the underground network. 1st class on metro trains is being phased out in a process started in 1982 when holders of second class tickets were allowed to travel in first class during very busy periods. This is justified by the limited appeal of first class compared with the charges incurred by RATP, especially given the costs of making sure that only people with a valid ticket travelled in first class. This will allow them to release the now redundant staff (RPIs) to tackle ‘real fraud’ more efficiently. Such a measure, that allows all customers to spread out more using all of the coaches on the busiest lines, shouldn't be bad for elderly people, who often have the chance to travel at quieter times when there are normally more free seats. Furthermore, RATP has asked the Police headquarters, highly proficient in doing so, to spread out elderly people of over 75 and the most beneficent amongst the places which are at the moment designated for those wounded by war, blind people, disabled ex-workers, ill people with a registered priority card, pregnant women and people accompanied by young children.

Making travel easier for people of reduced mobility is a priority for RATP: to achieve this, they are implementing after many years a vast programme which caters for all types of disabled people. This takes the form of mechanising access, the installation of seats for those who need them at stations, putting in warning strips on platform edges for the blind and partially sighted, hearing loops in front of the ticket offices for people with reduced hearing, and lifts for people in wheelchairs.

 

[jopsuk]

London Underground lines (at least, the Met at any rate) used toi have 1st class- long time ago though!

 

[Bald Rick]

Just found an article in the Bald Rick family archives which confirms first class was removed on the Paris Metro in July 1991.

Interestingly, it was exactly the same accommodation as second class, and only active between 0900-1700 for a 'more tranquil environment'. Outside these times first class status was suspended. Operators of Class 375 and 377 please note.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Cant think of many "family archives" with sections on RATP 1st class !

(have fleeting memories of the red cars in the olive green consists - I believe war veterans could travel in them at any time - presumably on the strength of showing their credentials)