2 strikes rule

[LeGrimpeur]

I can't get a straight answer on this so will try here to see if anyone can help.

I'm currently working as a shunter driver, passed all mainline psychometrics for the job.

Applied for crossrail, got an ONLINE sjt and vse. Failed the vse.

Is that one of my two strikes gone? I called OPC and they were quite vague but said it might be depending who I apply with.

I've read on this forum that online tests don't count as 2 strikes it's only a formal assesment centre test at interview stage that counts?
Thoughts?

 

[baz962]

I believe that the two strikes applies for everything , but breaks down as such . If you fail the normal psychometrics to standard level twice , thats it . If you pass to standard , but not enhanced twice , then you can go to any toc that uses standard , but not enhanced. The enhanced sjt , also called magnificent seven sjt and the vse ( visual search excercise ) are used by a couple of toc's , and if you fail twice , then that is it to any company that uses them . Although the normal sjt usually seems to have no limit , as every toc has an sjt of one type or another. Also to note though , many people believe that if you fail that or a dmi with one particular company twice , then they usually wont progress you again.

 

[driver9000]

As far as I know the online tests are TOC specific so don't count towards your 2 strikes at the national tests.

 

[sw1ller]

It would be very harsh for an online test to count towards your 2 strikes if half way through your internet failed for example. I can’t answer the question with any knowledge unfortunately but it would seem very strange for them to count.

 

[Gooner18]

Just To confirm the two test where not in a controlled environment?

 

[LeGrimpeur]

Just To confirm the two test where not in a controlled environment?

They were online tests done at home.

 

[Gooner18]

They were online tests done at home.

I can’t imagine they are counted towards your two strikes being that it was not in an “ exam environment “

 

[Stigy]

No, the VSE tests are not part of the two strike rule. Not all operators use these tests and at worst, you’d have to wait 6-months if you fail the VSE and another TOC/FOC you apply to use this system. As far as I’m aware, the OPC have VSEs, but it’s not just them who use these for assessing.

Basically as Gooner touched on, It wouldn’t be right to have the two strikes rule for a system which is potentially open to abuse in that its unregulated and technically you could have a mate undertake this for you.

 

[baz962]

Normal sjt are not , I believe the magnificent seven and the vse, im sure are , im sure the opc told me that .

 

[Stigy]

Normal sjt are not , I believe the magnificent seven and the vse, im sure are , im sure the opc told me that .

The VSE etc isn’t part of the National assesment process for drivers so don’t see how this could be the case? There was some confusion with this in that people were told the couldn’t apply for certain jobs if they’d failed the VSE within the last 6 months to a year? It was at the bottom of the Freightliner thread somewhere.

 

[baz962]

If you think about it , why should that matter , the opc or a toc can impose any rule they wish as long as it means you meet a minimum requirement .

 

[baz962]

In fact I have just recalled what they said. I took the vse and mag 7 sjt online , while waiting for the results I had assessment day for a toc. I was sent home and told I had to wait for the results and if I failed on the day , that could be my chances gone , two in one go.

 

[Cyclist]

This particular thread just proves that the OPC need to make themselves more transparent. A simple page on their website would clear up such questions and make it less confusing for those trying to join the industry.

 

[Stigy]

In fact I have just recalled what they said. I took the vse and mag 7 sjt online , while waiting for the results I had assessment day for a toc. I was sent home and told I had to wait for the results and if I failed on the day , that could be my chances gone , two in one go.

I believe that’s where the confusion lies. Was is the OPC that was the body assessing you for the second role? (Where you were sent home). I also think that if you have a VSE ongoing, if the other company also use this system, you can’t go through their process as you can only have one VSE taken within 6-months. I do think OPC need to be more transparent as has been said.

I asked quite simply if the “Vienna Tests” were all computer tests as I wondered if I could use my previous results. They replied with “you won’t need to do any Vienna tests, just the MMI”. That’s great, but not what I asked. I got the info at this wonderful forum in the end .

 

[baz962]

Yes , was the opc . Whenever I wanted / needed clarification I asked directly .

 

[WeGoAgain]

I can't get a straight answer on this so will try here to see if anyone can help.

I'm currently working as a shunter driver, passed all mainline psychometrics for the job.

Applied for crossrail, got an ONLINE sjt and vse. Failed the vse.

Is that one of my two strikes gone? I called OPC and they were quite vague but said it might be depending who I apply with.

I've read on this forum that online tests don't count as 2 strikes it's only a formal assesment centre test at interview stage that counts?
Thoughts?

Did you ask Crossrail directly? I'd like to think they'd know.

 

[WeGoAgain]

In fact I have just recalled what they said. I took the vse and mag 7 sjt online , while waiting for the results I had assessment day for a toc. I was sent home and told I had to wait for the results and if I failed on the day , that could be my chances gone , two in one go.

This sounds like you undertook the online assessments for a different company than you had the assessment with. Is that correct?

If so, it sounds like they were referring to your test results on that day that you physically attended as they'd likely not even consider cross checking which of the day's candidates had previously sat online VSE assessments.

 

[baz962]

Yes , I took the online to a different toc than at assessment day . Yes you cannot take them again until six months , but unless it was a slip of the tongue I was told that part of the reason is so they can keep track as you only get two goes and then can only apply to companies that dont use them.

 

[LeGrimpeur]

How confusing. I’m about to hopefully take an online sjt/ vse.
Not 100% on if this will be my 1st or 2nd life at stake!

 

[Stigy]

Yes , I took the online to a different toc than at assessment day . Yes you cannot take them again until six months , but unless it was a slip of the tongue I was told that part of the reason is so they can keep track as you only get two goes and then can only apply to companies that dont use them.

Maybe it’s so the OPC can keep track? They said it’s so they can keep track as you only get two goes, but only indirectly said about the two goes, didn’t specifically say the online tests count towards this? It’s hard to explain, sorry if I’m not being clear. Not doubting what the OPC has said to you of course, but I’m almost 100% certain that this doesn’t count (never say actually 100% hah). There has to be a definitive answer and the OPC need to be clear in their approach which clearly they’re not.

 

[LeGrimpeur]

So, question 9 of the initial Freightliner online application is:

‘Have you sat and failed the train driver assessment process for Freightliner or any other UK train organisation on two or more occasions since Oct 2013 (including online questionnaires or tests)?’

 

[Stigy]

So, question 9 of the initial Freightliner online application is:

‘Have you sat and failed the train driver assessment process for Freightliner or any other UK train organisation on two or more occasions since Oct 2013 (including online questionnaires or tests)?’

Then you’d have to say yes I guess?

 

[LeGrimpeur]

Yep...

 

[Stigy]

Yep...

I honestly don’t think the online tests are part of the process and think it’s just Freightliner saying that, or it’s just incorrectly written. I’m sure Freightliner could say whatever they want and it would be okay, as it’s their parogative who they progress through the assesments, however it’s not a national standard as not all TOC/FOCs use them. I’m sure it’s been said here before that it’s not a standard that is set in stone, and is just one which all TOCs seem to use as their policy? It’s all very confusing.

 

[Gooner18]

The way understand it is if the company wants you to sit the extra tests I.e like arriva then you only get two attempts at that test before you can no longer apply for that company.
I just can’t imagine that a test sat at home woudk count as a strike

 

[Stigy]

As a side note, it mentions “since 2013” because that was when the updated tests were introduced. I failed some in 2011, but because they introduced updated ones, I got my lives reset

 

[LeGrimpeur]

The way understand it is if the company wants you to sit the extra tests I.e like arriva then you only get two attempts at that test before you can no longer apply for that company.
I just can’t imagine that a test sat at home woudk count as a strike

This is the right answer I think.

The two strikes rule is only guidance and TOCs can waive this rule. (But don't).

In this case two strikes is true for those companies that use online assesment. If you fail twice online you can still apply to companies that don't use the online test.

It's a confusing unclear system and I wasn't aware of the consequences when I took the first online test.
Hey ho.

 

[sw1ller]

It's a confusing unclear system and I wasn't aware of the consequences when I took the first online test.
Hey ho.

Well there’s the answer surly, having never sat an online test for anyone I can’t answer this, but is there a disclaimer at the start to warn you of a possible 2 strikes? If not then how can they enforce it?

 

[sw1ller]

Just got this email from OPC. I did ask for specific clarification but it’s obviously not possible and I don’t think there’s any chance in finding out which companies use it against your “strikes”....

“Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately I’m unable to answer your question as the two attempts rule is the same across all train organisations, however some organisations may use the online test results as part of their process and is therefore included as part of the overall attempt, others may not. We are not the custodians of the process and therefore you would need to seek clarification from the organisation with whom you are applying to.


I’m sorry I can’t help further.”

Hope this helps.

 

[LeGrimpeur]

Just got this email from OPC. I did ask for specific clarification but it’s obviously not possible and I don’t think there’s any chance in finding out which companies use it against your “strikes”....

“Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately I’m unable to answer your question as the two attempts rule is the same across all train organisations, however some organisations may use the online test results as part of their process and is therefore included as part of the overall attempt, others may not. We are not the custodians of the process and therefore you would need to seek clarification from the organisation with whom you are applying to.


I’m sorry I can’t help further.”

Hope this helps.

So you could apply to TOC A and fail the online test. Apply to TOC B and fail the MMI. Apply to TOC C and be told you can’t apply as two strikes. Apply to TOC D pass all tests and get a job.