2 web sites, 2 prices???

[Hornby APT]

I am new to this forum so please go easy on me!

I booked a trip last night from Newcastle to York on 24/5 travelling on the 1440 departure. Normally I book my tickets on NXEC website but some reason I was having trouble loading it up so I went onto thetrainline and found my trip would be £7 (£8 including arrangement fee and card processing fee). Before I completed the transaction I managed to load up the NXEC website and for the same journey their website was £13.50!!! I have just checked again and it is now coming up as £20 and the trainline still £7.

Can anyone tell me why their is this big pricing anomalie? I always thought that although they had different front ends they essentially looked at the same database for availability. If anyone could shed some light I would be most grateful.

Thanks

 

[theblackwatch]

Bizarre - now thetrainline is offering £9 (std) and £16.50 (1st) tickets on that train, and still £20 on NXEC. I can't offer any explanation for it, but I'm sure our resident walking fares manual will be along later!

 

[me123]

It's happening everywhere, apparently. XC in particular are all over the place with their Advance fares. The simplification process appears to have confused tickets all over the country.

 

[Ascot]

I'm sure our resident walking fares manual will be along later!

classic

Having the same problems, it's a national problem by the looks of it as some tickets are not available on some trains on thetrainline but they are at stations and vice versa.

 

[Daniel]

This is a bad time to read this considering I have just spent £33 on train tickets through National Express.

Just checked TheTrainLine, prices are the same for me, so *phew* 8)

 

[digitaltoast]

More evidence of different sites, different fares here:
http://www.digitaltoast.co.uk/more-simplified-train-fare-scams-and-lies

In summary, since the 18th of May the £21 has become £21 except it's not, it's £16, but it's not because it should be £12 still, except that the "cheapest advance fare" system is showing £19.50 but this ticket doesn't exist, so you only have the £21 fare left, except the system won't let you book it as it doesn't exist.

To clear things up, I went into a ticket office, and a helpful man looked at his official fare book, scratched his head, looked at something else, scratched his head again, looked puzzled and explained:

“I don’t understand this - according to the official fare book from ATOC, your ticket has gone up from £12 to £16 but that £16 fare isn’t shown as existing in the ticket system, another part of which says that the cheapest fare is £19.50 but that doesn’t exist either, and the cheapest ticket I can now find on the system is £21 which is an incorrect fare which it won’t let me book”.

He then rubbed his head in his hands and explained that basically, the whole thing had been a nightmare and that just today they had found another anomaly which meant that a certain Cross Country first class fare was £72 more than it should have been!

 

[87015]

What a superb railway system we have!!!!!!!!

 

[Hornby APT]

So would I be right in saying that this is caused by the attempts to 'simplify' the ticketing system but has in fact caused even more confusion? LOL

 

[theblackwatch]

classic

So there is someone out that that understands my daft sense of humour! :grin:

 

[Max]

National Express were aware of problems with their site on Monday, seems nothing has been done to rectify it! I'm guessing a large number of people will have been overcharged.

 

[Daniel]

It would be good if companies contacted those they know they have overcharged once everything is sorted out to arrange a refund.

Sadly, I severely doubt they will do so unless the passenger finds out for themselves.

 

[digitaltoast]

It would be good if companies contacted those they know they have overcharged once everything is sorted out to arrange a refund.

Sadly, I severely doubt they will do so unless the passenger finds out for themselves.

I have a recording done just 2 days ago of AXC specifically saying they will NOT be refunding these overcharges unless passengers make the initiative to
a: know about it
b: write in

I was careful to ask specific questions and drill them down. Don't worry, it'll be making its way into another podcast soon enough!

 

[djw1981]

I'm just amazed that these customer service staff agree to be recorded. When I worked in a government press office we refused to be recorded ever.

 

[digitaltoast]

I'm just amazed that these customer service staff agree to be recorded. When I worked in a government press office we refused to be recorded ever.

Who said anything about agreeing to be recorded?
I didn't agree to be overcharged by £9 on my ticket.

 

[Max]

Who said anything about agreeing to be recorded?
I didn't agree to be overcharged by £9 on my ticket.

Indeed, aren't most of these consumer programmes where they expose rougue traders and such like based around secret filming?

 

[djw1981]

Yes but recording a phone call does require permission (and it is a criminal offence not to inform someone before you record if the recorder is part of the phone equipment - which AIUI also includes a PC if Skyping). Bizarrely speakerphone and a mic on the camera doesn't which is why TV use that a lot.

 

[digitaltoast]

Yes but recording a phone call does require permission (and it is a criminal offence not to inform someone before you record if the recorder is part of the phone equipment - which AIUI also includes a PC if Skyping). Bizarrely speakerphone and a mic on the camera doesn't which is why TV use that a lot.

Which is exactly what I use.

 

[digitaltoast]

OK, now here's something to watch out for:

I just checked another fare - it seems (from a bit of checking) that most journeys in the south aren't as messed up and different depending on the booking company, as they are for other routes.

HOWEVER, CrossCountryTrains website is showing DOUBLE the price for every journey I can find. Let's take one example - Reading to Bournemouth, out 11:45 28th June, Back 11:45 3rd July

Same train, same ticket, same fare rules. Scroll down and read below the screenshots.

The difference is that everyone else will charge you £7, booking via CrossCountry will cost you £14.

First, National Rail £7

Virgin Trains £7

the excellent National Express site (REALLY good use of Ajax and a fares matrix on this site, highly recommended!): £7

and finally, CrossCountryTrains - £14!

Now, how is the public supposed to know that?! Is it even legal? I suppose they can charge what they want, but ATOC told me all companies should show the same tickets and prices (excluding any booking fees). Can anyone confirm if this is true?

 

[Max]

I wonder if this is a problem with thetrainline. I would suggest checking on sites such as Transpennine Express and East Midlands Trains too to see what they are trying to charge (as these are powered by thetrainline).

EDIT: Actually, looks like this may just be a problem with Cross Country's website as TPE is offering £3.50 singles for these services.

 

[yorkie]

When I get home I will check a few more prices for different journeys. I do wonder if it is something to do with quotas.

XC are using thetrainline so, in theory, the results should be the same as other companies. FSR is a good one to use as you don't have to register to start using the site.

It *may* be understandable if there is a delay in updating the results if using the NXEC site compared to TTL, as they are not using the same database. However they should all be looking up availablity on the central reservation system, and this should be real time. I am not sure how it works.

It is perhaps feasible that XC are not selling the cheapest tickets, but it seems like a crazy thing for them to do, and people were bound to find out. Surely it can't be deliberate?

Without knowing exactly how the system works it is difficult to give a conclusive answer though.

One thing that I do know for certain is that if there is, say 1 £3.50 ticket left, if you put that in your basket, it is no longer selectable. However if you remove it from your basket it is then selectable (after a delay). What I am unsure of, is whether it is selectable on other sites - in other words, when you add it to your basket, is it just that website that is aware of this or is the central reservation system aware? More research is needed! When testing, bear in mind this theory can be tested by selecting any number of tickets. But if anyone else is also selecting tickets by putting them into their basket at the same time it can alter your results. It's worth looking into, though...

 

[digitaltoast]

Someone on another forum wondered if I was accidentally trying to book two tickets.

So, I checked, because I saw that someone had replied to my post on a newsgroup saying they had seen it for £3.50.

I went back and rechecked the ticket, paying close attention to the amount of tickets, and it was one ticket. And it was £7.

BUT...I had booked 2 tickets earlier in the day for a different trip. As an act of random thought, I then tried the same ticket in IE and not Firefox...and it was £3.50

I then went back to Firefox, cleared out the cache, cookies and sessions (so I was logged out of the site), restarted the browser...and it was £3.50

All I can assume from this is that somehow the CrossCountry site is screwed up in some way where it remembers in the cookie or session, something about two tickets, even when you are trying to book one.

Something to be aware of. I'm going to do some more testing in the morning - not sure how without booking a ticket, but I wonder if it's the site, or my Firefox (2.0.0.14)

 

[John @ home]

I too have found that on occasion the combination of Firefox and a railway booking site has made it difficult for me to book the cheapest option.

One example was when I wanted to log in via a special page to get a newspaper offer, but also to access the usual site to get a railcard discount for another ticket on the same train - not available via the newspaper. Having logged in I could not get the site to offer me anything other than the offer tickets.

The only 'fix' I found was to use another computer or return the next day when the login had expired.

John

 

[jopsuk]

the excellent National Express site (REALLY good use of Ajax and a fares matrix on this site, highly recommended!): £7

Not just easier to use, but missing all the charges that thetrainline add on as well- even posting tickets 1st class is free!

 

[Techniquest]

I'm sure posting tickets in First Class mail is free when booking through the FGW, ATW, Virgin websites too...

 

[1D53]

I don't use anything but Nat Ex for purchasing tickets now, walks over everything else out there.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[caughtonatrain]

I know for sure that there is not one centralised database behind these fare systems. I once tried to buy a Euro High Saver for travel Sheffield->London International CIV from Sheffield Booking Office (East Mids Trains ) to be told that the ticket type had been discontinued and that a new higher fare was in force. But the guy hinted that if I "shopped around" I might find the older fare still on sale. I eventually got it from First Scotrail Telesales ... a mighty saving of over 50%... and the funny thing was they even issued a reservation coupon that explicitly put me on a train (0520 Shef->St Pancras) forbidden by the ticket ("NXEC+Connections")!

 

[Chris B]

CIV have separate restrictions in that they allow travel on any (even peak) train that arrives in time to allow you to catch your E*. Reservations are usually issued to tie you to one particular train, however.

Even if the same ticket to 'London' without CIV wouldn't normally be available.

However, you do need to be in possession of an E* ticket to buy a CIV connection.

 

[digitaltoast]

CIV have separate restrictions in that they allow travel on any (even peak) train that arrives in time to allow you to catch your E*. Reservations are usually issued to tie you to one particular train, however.

Even if the same ticket to 'London' without CIV wouldn't normally be available.

However, you do need to be in possession of an E* ticket to buy a CIV connection.

Sorry to be a div, but what does CIV stand for? I'm guessing "Complicated International Voucher"? "Completely Innocent Virgin"?

 

[John @ home]

what does CIV stand for?

Conditions générales de transport pour le transport Internationale ferroviaire des Voyaguers, the uniform rules concerning the contract for international carriage of passengers and luggage by rail.

John

 

[caughtonatrain]

CIV have separate restrictions in that they allow travel on any (even peak) train that arrives in time to allow you to catch your E*. Reservations are usually issued to tie you to one particular train, however.

Even if the same ticket to 'London' without CIV wouldn't normally be available.

However, you do need to be in possession of an E* ticket to buy a CIV connection.

If this is the case then why do the tickets have restrictions printed on them? And why are different fares available at different times of travel? I, like Chris B, thought there were no restrictions - but recently this does not seem to have been the case. I think that the CIV system is very confusing and not well advertised in the UK -- yet it should be an essential part of encouraging long distance rail travel.

Furthermore, to clarify the final point: I have been told that you only need a E* booking reference (or presumably a Rail-Sea-Rail booking ref) to buy CIV on the understanding that you might be using Ticket-on-Departure. In practice, I am rarely asked for ticket or reference.