2009 Stock

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NY Yankee

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The S Stock has received so much attention, but I didn't realise that there was another new carriage operating in the Tube. The 2009 Stock, which is operating on the Victoria line, has a fast acceleration. The seats look comfortable (though I'm not a fan of the upholstery. It appears to have Siemens propulsion (like some of the newer trains in New York and Washington). Are there many of them operating on the Victoria line or the rest of the Tube?

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MidnightFlyer

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The Victoria line is operated solely by the 2009 stock, however they aren't used on any other lines. It was introduced for public running on 21 July 2009, and fully replaced the 1967 stock less than two years later, on 30 June 2011.
 

Peter Mugridge

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If you're interested the fleet list is 11001 + 11002 through to 11093 + 11094 ( 47 units ). Officially these are single 8 car units, but there may well be a split and re-match amongst the odd unit or two at some point in the future!

One point to note:

11001 / 2 and 11003 / 4 are not the originals; they were not identical to the production batch and it was found to be cheaper to "recycle" them and build two replacement trains carrying the same numbers* as the originals. Not sure if the frames were re-used or if everything of the originals was "recycled".



*On the Underground re-numbering to keep units and sequences "smooth" after a reformation or a replacement is surprisingly common and causes serious headaches for enthusiasts years later trying to work out what became what!
 

trentside

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On the Underground re-numbering to keep units and sequences "smooth" after a reformation or a replacement is surprisingly common and causes serious headaches for enthusiasts years later trying to work out what became what!

Interestingly, I've just been reading an article on the 1967 Stock and the fleet expansion in 1988-89 when several 1972 MK1 stock were incorporated into the '67 fleet. Apparently the incorporated '72s were subsequently re-numbered to tie in with the '67s they'd been paired with. So exactly as you say, nothing like making it difficult for the enthusiasts :lol:

Another interesting point about the 2009 Stock is that they can only leave the Victoria line by road, and therefore all heavy work has to be undertaken at Northumberland Park depot, rather than the units going to Acton via the connection at Finsbury Park. This is because the 2009s are built to take advantage of the Victoria lines larger loading gauge.
 

CC 72100

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I know it seems to be the same with the new S stock, and that people should know what line they're on, but I do miss have all the grab handles in the line's colour. It was a little quirky thing that I used to like, but since the '95 or '96 stock doesn't seem to happen anymore. :(

(Although interestingly, despite their refurbishment taking place well into the 21st century, the D stock do have all green handles)
 

Eagle

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I know it seems to be the same with the new S stock, and that people should know what line they're on, but I do miss have all the grab handles in the line's colour. It was a little quirky thing that I used to like, but since the '95 or '96 stock doesn't seem to happen anymore. :(

Actually it is still standard practice to have the handles matching the line colour. The exceptions you mention are the 1995 and 1996, which can't have the handles painted their line colour (black and grey respectively) as they are required to be brightly coloured; and the S stock, which is shared between several lines, and I hardly think that a particoloured mix of purple, pink, yellow and green will look anything less than hideous...
 

CC 72100

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Actually it is still standard practice to have the handles matching the line colour. The exceptions you mention are the 1995 and 1996, which can't have the handles painted their line colour (black and grey respectively) as they are required to be brightly coloured; and the S stock, which is shared between several lines, and I hardly think that a particoloured mix of purple, pink, yellow and green will look anything less than hideous...

Ah, I see. I wasn't aware that they had to be brightly coloured. That combination wouldn't look too good, I agree with you on that one! However, surely the Met stock will be kept separate, given it is S8 and the Circle/District/H&C S7?
 

trentside

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Surely the all modern handles must be yellow so to help people who can't see many colours?

I think they just have to stand out against other interior fittings.

Interestingly, I believe the current plan is to fit all stocks with a new standardised seating moquette, presumably to save on costs. This is the same one that is in the process of being fitted to the 1992 Stock in an attempt to vaguely smarten them up before the Olympics!
 

trivran

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Sadly they are nothing of the sort - they are rock hard, with the thinnest layer of cushion I think ever found on the tube!

You haven't been on a certain Jubilee Line train. The seats have no cushion whatsoever..forgotten the number though. They have the new 'standard' moquette.
 
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MCR247

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They still look like a pile of crap.

Dunno what it is about the 92ts and if it is just me, but they are horrible! It absolutely hate them! The interiors always seem dark and gloomy even though they have absolutely MASSIVE windows! :shock:
 

Peter Mugridge

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Interestingly, I've just been reading an article on the 1967 Stock and the fleet expansion in 1988-89 when several 1972 MK1 stock were incorporated into the '67 fleet. Apparently the incorporated '72s were subsequently re-numbered to tie in with the '67s they'd been paired with. So exactly as you say, nothing like making it difficult for the enthusiasts :lol:

Try this with the A Stock:

Original 5008 became 5034. Original 5034 became 5008 and later became 5234...

Original 5037 became 5117. Original 5117 became 5233,

Other stock has had direct swaps as well; 17035 and 17077 in the D Stock have switched identities. So did 3728 and 3730 on the short lived 1983 stock.

You mentioned the Victoria Line. On the 1967 stock, unit 01 was the oldest, right? Wrong! Only half of it was...!! 3101 became 3180 and 4101 became 4180 while 1972 cars 3317 became 3101 and 4317 became 4101... At least the lower numbered pair of cars were original!

Plus many, many, more similar renumberings and swaps involving virtually every type and line.

As I said... Major headaches!
 

CC 72100

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Dunno what it is about the 92ts and if it is just me, but they are horrible! It absolutely hate them! The interiors always seem dark and gloomy even though they have absolutely MASSIVE windows! :shock:

Don't like the 92 stock either, nor the Central line for that matter. :|
 

starrymarkb

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When new the 1992 stock was very bright and the huge windows made them feel quite spacious. But they are about 20 years old now and haven't had a major refurbishment (beyond the current new windows and seat trim)
 

trentside

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When new the 1992 stock was very bright and the huge windows made them feel quite spacious. But they are about 20 years old now and haven't had a major refurbishment (beyond the current new windows and seat trim)

I remember them first arriving on the Central. I was quite young at the time, but how modern they felt in comparison to the 1962 Stock was staggering. Going from wooden framed windows and clunky doors to light carriages, with huge windows and next stop announcements was quite a revolution. It's just a pity the gloss soon wore off and it became apparent that the build quality was fairly shoddy - and those big windows liked nothing better than to drip water down the back of your neck!
 

trentside

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You can only do so much with the limited space of the deep tube lines. If only every tube line was a subsurface.

I seem to recall that a design aspect of the 2009 Stock is that they have more headroom inside than other tube stocks. How they achieved this I'm not sure.
 

tsr

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If you want comfortable seats, you'd best stick with the Bakerloo Line trains.

The 2009 stock should have had decent air conditioning (not just the cooling system installed at present) as standard. That's what makes them unsuitable for the job, in my opinion. I have been stuck for a decent while on one of these trains in the height of summer at Oxford Circus at rush hour, and with no adequate system whatsoever for cooling, the heat was terrible. However, the extra headroom is very nice, and the ride is bearable. The seats are not too bad, despite other posts on here - I'd rather have a few of those than none at all.

The stock on the Central Line, for example, feels extremely cramped by comparison!
 

jopsuk

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if they had air conditiong, where would the heat go? They don't have aircon because there is no adequate way of removing the heat from the tunnels. If you can't get the heat out of the tunnels, then the aircon won't actually work, in the same way that opening the door of your fridge won't cool your kitchen.
 

Nym

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I seem to recall that a design aspect of the 2009 Stock is that they have more headroom inside than other tube stocks. How they achieved this I'm not sure.

Marginally bigger tunnels...

if they had air conditiong, where would the heat go? They don't have aircon because there is no adequate way of removing the heat from the tunnels. If you can't get the heat out of the tunnels, then the aircon won't actually work, in the same way that opening the door of your fridge won't cool your kitchen.

Siemens have a systems for the next gen deep level stock, but from what I know of it, it wouldn't work on the likes of the Victoria line because it's always deep level, it would use heat storage to keep air circulating underground and then pump this out only above ground.

(So you can imagine how warm the platforms at Stratford will end up getting on the Central Line)

It will work, but it won't be what people have come to expect of air con were you can have a 185 running at anything down to 8C in the height of summer, it will keep fresh air always circulating, but cooling capacity will be limited underground.

As for Vic Line air con, it won't happen until we can cool the tunnels, and on the Vic, that's unlikely, they were experimenting with ground water a while ago and ended up scrapping the plans as they're too expensive.
 

HSTEd

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If you were to install enormous air con systems at the stations you could get significant reductions in tunnel temperatures without doing anything in the tunnels themselves.
(Use the piston effect to shunt the cold air through the system)
 

Nym

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If you were to install enormous air con systems at the stations you could get significant reductions in tunnel temperatures without doing anything in the tunnels themselves.
(Use the piston effect to shunt the cold air through the system)

You'd still have the problem of getting the heat back to the surface at deep level stations, and the size of the equipment needed would be rather, well, large.
 

HSTEd

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You'd still have the problem of getting the heat back to the surface at deep level stations, and the size of the equipment needed would be rather, well, large.

Well if money was no object could always just drop liquid oxygen down a half inch pipe into the station and let it boil at the bottom.....
 

Nym

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Well if money was no object could always just drop liquid oxygen down a half inch pipe into the station and let it boil at the bottom.....

Then send the fire brigade down afterwords for when the current rails set on fire or people start getting needlessly giddy.

The only 'problems' I can see are...

Fitting the water circulation pipes in, the roofs or lift shafts may work.

Fitting in the local conditioning equipment, again, the roof of the platform tunnels and roofs of interconnecting corridors.

Fitting in the compressors on listed buildings and in the centre of London.

Capacity within the system for trains emitting heat coming through, very inefficient way to transfer heat off the trains.
 

Dstock7080

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If you were to install enormous air con systems at the stations you could get significant reductions in tunnel temperatures without doing anything in the tunnels themselves.
(Use the piston effect to shunt the cold air through the system)
Which is part of the idea of the large units now being installed at Green Park and Oxford Circus.
 

jon0844

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Are they fitting air con, or just more of those giant fans?

I'd like to see one of those fans in each carriage of a 2009 stock. It might even help get people to move down inside the car (albeit to the other end in one big pile).
 

jopsuk

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as a digression- Crossrail is effectively larger "deep tube"- the tunnels though will be much larger than the trains (with OHL and possibly a DLR-style escape "platform"?) which will be much taller anyway- will the trains be aircon, and will the tunnels have far better ventilation to deal with the heat?
 

DVD

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Don't like the 92 stock either, nor the Central line for that matter. :|

Completely agree about the 92 stock, I've never liked them. The seats are too low, noticably lower than all other tube stock, the lack of armrests is a pain (and could be resolved), the ambience is unpleasant, there are not enough grab poles, standing is rarely comfortable.

Compared to 92 stock, the Victoria Line 2009 stock is utter bliss.
 

futureA

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Completely agree about the 92 stock, I've never liked them. The seats are too low, noticably lower than all other tube stock, the lack of armrests is a pain (and could be resolved), the ambience is unpleasant, there are not enough grab poles, standing is rarely comfortable.

Compared to 92 stock, the Victoria Line 2009 stock is utter bliss.

The 92's look a it scruffy on the inside but I like the huge windows and the angular look of them. They also have very impressive acceleration and deceleration.
 
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